overloaded trucks

[hraney]

The 6.5 bad rep thread got me to thinking about this:
How many of us (me included) grossly overload our 3/4 and 1 ton p/u's?
My door sticker says GVWR 10000. Now, my truck weighs 7100 empty, that leaves me w/ the ability to stick about 2900 in it and be within its design limits according to GM, right? I wonder what it weighs when I have 12 rolls of 5x6 hay (~1200# per bale) on my GN trailer (which is rated at 22500)? Am I overloaded... probably.
I have seen so many 1 ton trucks pulling hay, cattle, equipment, etc. down the highway at what I consider unsafe speeds (totally subjective opinion there). Should we really expect a 1 ton pickup to be able to pull 20000# of payload at 80mph? Should we expect it to stop that kind of payload in a safe manner?
Honestly I don't know how fast my 6.5 will pull those 12 rolls of hay because I don't push it past 50-55mph. I grew up pulling farm trailers around that were only a busted pin or crack weld or two away from being sleds so that was our limitation there. Later when I drove truck w/ Dad, we made lots more $$ at 60-65mph due to fuel cost, tire wear, etc than at 70-75mph. Also, all those guys that passed us, we usually got where we were going about the same time they did.
I know our local DPS cut us a lot of slack during the recent drought in regards to 1 tons pulling 16 to 20 bales of hay. But I fully expect them to start cracking down. I have seen a couple of instances where this has already happened. Almost...ALMOST ... I repeat ALMOST....makes me think we do need some kind of regs on 1 tons and some enforcement.
Seems to me most of this "my truck hauls this better than yours" is mostly bragging rights.
Gee... this sort of turned into rant didn't it?

[grancito]

The weight "limit" is for what you put in your truck, what you tow is a different set of figures and depends on local regs depending on whether you have trailer brakes. For example a travel trailer manufacture said that my 82 chev should not tow one more than 27 ft, but this was because of the power of the 6.2 diesel.

[hraney]

Yes, yes, I understand the diff between "hauled" and "towed" weight. I was just using that for an example. My point is, most of us overload our trucks. We usually run out of chassis (springs, brakes, etc.) before we run out of engine.

[deerefanatic]

IF your trailer brakes are good enough, then you're basically only limited in engine power and tongue weight of trailer...

For instance, we used to haul our Ford 4000 loader tractor with our C1500 (305 gasser) alot with BROKEN trailer brakes... Trailer weighs about 1900 lbs empty plus about 7000 lbs of tractor = almost 9,000 lbs of tow weight with no brakes behind a C1500... In that case, we ran out of rear suspension travel due to tonge weight than we did engine and brakes.. Our truck would stop it ok, though it wasn't safe at all... Later we got new axles, one of them with brakes, and the trailer brakes when adjusted properly would stop the truck just as quick as if there was no trailer at all behind it.....

So, No, we don't need regulations on tow limits...... Besides, how many wrecks have you really heard of due to overloaded pickups causing wrecks due to the overloading? (And not other factors like speeding, drinking, sleeping, etc..) Heck, more people get in wrecks by falling asleep than that.. Should there be mandatory rock music playing in all vehicles after 10pm to keep drivers awake?

[hraney]

:D True, it is usually not the overloading that CAUSES the wreck, but the unsafe driving up to that point. But, would you agree that the overloading reduces the safety margin? Do I overload my P/U? Sure, after all, things have to get done. But what I was sort of getting at was this: If you can pull 20,000# 85mph, does that mean it is safe to do so?
Not trying to point fingers or upset anyone, just making conversation.

BTW, I by no means meant to suggest we need the DOT sticking their noses in how we load our P/Us. Heaven knows the SafetyCrats have done us enough "favors".
I happened to have enjoyed the '65 Corvair we used to own when I was growing up.:D

[deerefanatic]

SafetyCrats.... LOL! :rolleyes:

If it was really about saftey, they wouldn't make us wear seatbelts that can cause as many injuries as they prevent.....


Basically, if you want to be totally safe, live life in a concrete bunker and just drink purified water and you'll be completely safe for the 30 days or so that you'll live! :D

[hraney]

Exactly.
The most dangerous thing I do everyday is get out of bed. Its downhill from there!

[torque454]

Doesnt matter if your brakes are good or not, it takes a certain amount of time to stop X amount of weight. I have a $160 tekonsha prodigy brake controller which does everything short of wiping your ass for you. Even it, takes a second or two to adjust. And what happened if you bust the frame on your truck going down the road at 80mph pulling 20,000? Overloading is dangerous. If the frame broke and you killed someone while within your weight limit, you could sue the manufacturer. Over the limit, its all on you. For the most part NO its not the overloading that is the problem, its how you drive when you're overloaded. Thats only true to a point still tho. The problem with overloading is expecially with these guys that think theyve gotta have all the power they can get is that you're tempted to use it even when you shouldnt. Just like guys streetracing because one guy has a mustang and the other a camaro. Do you really think they DIDNT buy that car to use it? You're nieve if you believe that. Same goes for towing. Sure the new dmax has 660ft lb, and that can pull... god only knows how much weight. But, chevy still has a limit on what it can pull safely even tho it has more than enough power to pull more. You exceed that, and you're running a risk. You better be careful and be on your toes all the time,and you best not push that truck. This is why a 6.5 is plenty. It doesnt give you the temptation to do what you have no business doing. Take your time, you'll get there. Being in a big hurry isnt worth killing somone or tearing something up.

[962500]

I had 28 truck batteries and 24 truck brake drums in the back of my c2500. the load weighed in at around 3300 lbs if i remember right. the truck was starting ride pretty low and the brakes weren't that great for that amount of weight in the back but it handled it fine.

[deerefanatic]

Loading the truck too much is a much quicker way to death than loading a trailer..... Reason?

Loaded in bed, you still only have 4 tires and 4 brakes on the road.

BUT, on a trailer, you can have 6 tires & 6 brakes, or 8 tires & 8 brakes, or 10 tires & 10 brakes........ That keeps your weight-to-stopping power ratio more favorable.......

I personally will never load much weight in the back of the truck.... Much safer to trailer it..... Plus, a trailer's easier to load than a truck bed! :)

[jim87vette]

I agree with you guys on the towing of cargo and trailers . I think like said we have all done over the limit at one time or another . But I will never understand the guy going 80mph past me with a full load behind his 2500 or 3500 I always think how the heck are they gonna stop that thing if the sh--t hits the fan ? Maybe bacause of my age or the value I put on life lol, I dont know but I usually wont go over 65 ever with a load and stay around 55-60 for the most part . Funny how I usually catch up with the guy going 80 mph eventually , unless he's peeing in a bottle :p

[jifaire]

Interesting discussion, guys.

As a professional driver, I have a pretty healthy respect for load ratings and safety - and I agree completely that towing power has very little to do with things; it's more a comfort/ego thing, and means you don't have to slow down so much on hills.

Brakes, tow vehicle stability, and terrain conditions are the big factors when pulling heavy. Always. Anyone can tow heavy on flat asphalt with no traffic and tons of room to stop.

I've seen 5th wheel or gooseneck trailers literally EAT the half-tons they were being pulled by when something went wrong... hitting washboards on gravel being a prime example - a 27' fifth wheel with a slide weighs about 9000 lb, has a hitch weight around 1600 lb. When you're trying to stop that trailer with a dinky little 1500, with passenger-car suspension and undersized brakes, you're in deep doo-doo.

Ever wonder why us big rigs have air brakes on the trailers we pull? If we blow an air line, our trailer brakes lock up - it's called fail-safe. When we drive our pick-ups with that gooseneck, we are one bad fuse away from having no brakes on the trailer.

When your trailer outweighs your truck by enough, you need 3-4 times as much room to stop safely, or the trailer will push the truck around. It's worse with anti-lock brakes on the truck, too. I've seen at least 3 different half-tons with bent and twisted frames because somebody got into trouble with a trailer that was too heavy for the truck under the conditions, and the trailer ate the truck. I've seen one where the gooseneck pushed the truck through a T-intersection and into the ditch on the other side... wrote the new Chevy 1500 off, put the driver in the hospital, could have killed anyone if there had been traffic coming through where he was supposed to stop.

You don't agree? Think about this: the new little Toyota SR5s (with the v8) have more HP than you do. By a lot. Would you think they are safe pulling a 27' fifth wheel with a slide or two? Have you ever seen those mini-motorhomes with the little Toyota or Datsun trucks under them, wobbling in the wind shear from us big guys as they go down the highway?

I agree with where this thread started... if you pull too heavy, you aren't just your own problem... you're a problem for the rest of us on the road, too.

[deerefanatic]

well said........

[torque454]

Interesting discussion, guys.

As a professional driver, I have a pretty healthy respect for load ratings and safety - and I agree completely that towing power has very little to do with things; it's more a comfort/ego thing, and means you don't have to slow down so much on hills.

Brakes, tow vehicle stability, and terrain conditions are the big factors when pulling heavy. Always. Anyone can tow heavy on flat asphalt with no traffic and tons of room to stop.

I've seen 5th wheel or gooseneck trailers literally EAT the half-tons they were being pulled by when something went wrong... hitting washboards on gravel being a prime example - a 27' fifth wheel with a slide weighs about 9000 lb, has a hitch weight around 1600 lb. When you're trying to stop that trailer with a dinky little 1500, with passenger-car suspension and undersized brakes, you're in deep doo-doo.

Ever wonder why us big rigs have air brakes on the trailers we pull? If we blow an air line, our trailer brakes lock up - it's called fail-safe. When we drive our pick-ups with that gooseneck, we are one bad fuse away from having no brakes on the trailer.

When your trailer outweighs your truck by enough, you need 3-4 times as much room to stop safely, or the trailer will push the truck around. It's worse with anti-lock brakes on the truck, too. I've seen at least 3 different half-tons with bent and twisted frames because somebody got into trouble with a trailer that was too heavy for the truck under the conditions, and the trailer ate the truck. I've seen one where the gooseneck pushed the truck through a T-intersection and into the ditch on the other side... wrote the new Chevy 1500 off, put the driver in the hospital, could have killed anyone if there had been traffic coming through where he was supposed to stop.

You don't agree? Think about this: the new little Toyota SR5s (with the v8) have more HP than you do. By a lot. Would you think they are safe pulling a 27' fifth wheel with a slide or two? Have you ever seen those mini-motorhomes with the little Toyota or Datsun trucks under them, wobbling in the wind shear from us big guys as they go down the highway?

I agree with where this thread started... if you pull too heavy, you aren't just your own problem... you're a problem for the rest of us on the road, too.


Finally somone sees it my way. Thank you, jifaire.

[Garth J]

I agree also Im a retired highway driver with over 30 years and I couldnt have said it better...Garth

[MAGNUM SERVICES]

I agree with you guys about trailers and the extra brakes being safer. Have you seen some of the guys driving with snow plows ,a salt spreader and ALL that salt in the bed? I know they're overloaded as far as their G.V.W. is!

[hraney]

Saw a guy this AM at the cafe with a bent GN ball in his Big Tex steel flatbed on his brand new Dodge. He was pulling a 40' GN loaded w/ 20 rolls of alfalfa hay. I don't know what size bales but lets estimate 1000# per bale, truck is what? ~8000# probably and the trailer weighs probably at least another 7500#
20000# hay
8000# truck
7500# trailer
35500# gross -- behind a 1 ton p/u.
That's about what Dad's old Superliner Mack weighed empty w/ an aluminum 48' spread axle flatbed.

[deerefanatic]

Must be his trailer brakes weren't working like they should have been...... :eek:

[torque454]

Probably overestimated on the truck and trailer a bit but the hay could easily be more that 1k per bale. So you're about right on the weight. That is way, way too much for even a 1 ton. If you ask him tho, he'd probably tell you it was a defective ball. (can we say nieve?) :D

[hraney]

Yeah, I bet he is at the dealer for the flatbed right now trying to get some warranty out of them. I wouldn't think I missed the truck weight by much, being a 4 door Dodge w/ a LOT of steel in the bed, but yeah, I went a little light on the hay not knowing what size roll. My 5x6 bermuda rolls usually average about 1400# right off the meadow.
Bottom line, he was overloaded. Must have been some kind of side load thing cause the ball was bent to the right. Maybe from jack knifeing the trailer while loaded? Or running through a ditch while loaded? I guess I really ought to get the whole story from him (if he'll fess up!).:D

[ChevyCowboy]

i saw a guy last night with a little 1500 6 lug pickup pulling a goose neck loaded with 9 round bails of bean stocks it was a tandum axle trailer but that truck looked like it was about to take off i dont see how the front wheels where still on the ground thats how much the rear end was saging
got a good laugh and then got the heck away from him

[Husker 6.5]

Yeah, it all boils down to four things:

1. Proper equipment for the job (upgraded vehicle brakes like drilled rotors, high friction pads/shoes, trailer brake controller, extended mirrors, etc.).

2. Proper training.

3. Experience.

And most importantly...

4. Having your wits about you at all times and your head firmly planted on your shoulders, not up your ass:D :D

My 94 C2500 HD cab and chassis has a Rawson-Koening 8' steel utility box. With a standard cab and normal load of tools, it weighs about 7200. With a house full of windows and doors and materials, I pushed past 9000 lbs GVW a few times. That's why early on I upgraded to Power Stop drilled rotors and Titanium pads front, and kevlar shoes on the rear. It gave it seriously more whoa power. I also tried to ensure that my load in the bed was as evenly distributed side to side as possible, and the majority of the weight from the rear axle forward, especially important if you're pulling a trailer. Have you ever noticed how many people have no concept of tongue weight or how to load a trailer? I have literally seen idiots pulling a U-haul down the Interstate with the rear suspension bottomed, and the front tires actually breaking contact with the pavement as they hit the expansion joints, while they're driving at 70-75 MPH!:eek: They always seem to be driving a small/mid SUV (S-10, Pathfinder, Excursion, Pilot, etc.) or a mid 70's Fairmont.:D

Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate.

Husker 6.5

Beat CU.

[torque454]

Lol @ the excursion being small or medium :D:D

[Husker 6.5]

Lol @ the excursion being small or medium :D:D

My bad. Meant Explorer, you know the Eddie Bauer, yuppie owned, kid and grocery hauling, IDS rear, roll-over prone, think they have a "real" truck SUV.:D

Husker 6.5

[torque454]

My bad. Meant Explorer, you know the Eddie Bauer, yuppie owned, kid and grocery hauling, IDS rear, roll-over prone, think they have a "real" truck SUV.:D

Husker 6.5

Aaah ok :D Yep i know the type. Around here everyone in an explorer drives like a bat out of hell. I dont know what it is about those things but literally it seems like everyone who drives one nearly chirps the tires every time they take off. Its crazy. And its usually a woman :D:D

[MAGNUM SERVICES]

Woman and suv's = Women drivers ,No survivors . No I did NOT coin the phrase,just repeat it often !

[torque454]

:D:D That ones great! :D:D

[deerefanatic]

Don't let your wife/gf read that!! :D

[MAGNUM SERVICES]

My wife hears it from me often and she HATES being stuck behind SUV's as she drives a 94 Camaro . She knows most woman SUV drivers are on their cell phone and she believes in "Hang up and drive"

[JD_countryboy]

I agree wit alot of whats said in this post. But where do these guys get the idea they can pull so much? At work, the boss has an F 350 with an unagoose ball in it. guess what the ball hitch assembly is rated at? 60,000 pounds! It said something like garunteed to 40,000 and tested to 60,000 with no problem. granted the ford will NEVER be able to move something like that, but when you do have a load and some mindless cell phone texting idiot pulls out in front of me and i slamm the brakes to the floar, least i can depend on the ball not breakin off and trailer comming thru the back glass. Yes i know we have all the required safety chains and brake away switch foir the electric brakes on the traier if the trailer was to come unhooked or hitch break. Think of the ratings of these newer trailers. His is rated at over 20,000gvwr. thats not counting the truck.

Yes on air bake equipt trucks trailers, you do have a parking brake system to fall back on to help stop if your service brake system fails.. but you have to realize the service brake system failure and then manually activte the parking brake system. Or wait till your air tank pressure drops to around 60 psi, which is half of what the recommned air pressure is, and the low air warning lights come on and the parking brake will automatically set itself, including tractor parking brake. Which last time i checked, seems to take around 1 minute, depending on size of all combined air tanks and the pressure they were at before you hit the brakes. Sure it will help you stop, but what happens when your brake is to the floar cause the cell phone texting idiot just ran the stop sign in front of you and is now in front of you and your service brake hose blows cause its cold and brittle? Your never gonna have enough time and wit to pull the trailer parking brake and not run over the idiot. Sure it will help stop in the event you notice the failure of the service brake system when your comming up to a yellow or red light, but will you be able to stop in time?

Husker 6.5 put it as direct as you can get. Those 4 points are so true.

just a couple more thoughts on the topic.

Happy and safe hauling to you all

[torque454]

I can agree with that too. But you cant avoid every accident. But on the other hand, you shouldnt allow that to keep you from atleast trying.