80hp Chip

[torque454]

Id like to discuss walts 80hp chip. There are lots of complaints of broken cranks, overheating, destruction by high EGT's and stuff like that on 6.5's in general. So, are the 6.5's really capable of handling an extra 160 ft lb? What about one with over 200k on it? What effects would it have on fuel milage, longevity, and the rest of the truck? Is a 4L80E/NV4500 capable of handling 545ft lb? What about tcase (if 4x4) and axles? And if you added an intercooler, #9 resistor (if that would even make a difference anymore once the chip is changed) and marine injectors? The marine injectors probably wont make it move any extra fuel, but with the higher pop pressure it will spray the fuel better thus resulting in better, more efficent burning of the fuel which in turn results in better economy and power. You could probably be pushing 575-600 ft lb by then. But the questions above still remain. Lets discuss this guys. :)

[Oldsmoke]

I have the kennedy high power chip and so far so good but I have not done any high power heavy hauling and before I do I will install a transmission temperature gauge. Stock, I could pull my 21.5 ft. RV trailer up pretty long and steep hills at 90 kph. no problem but I had to back off for climbing engine temperature so I'm pretty sure that heat will be the limiting factor.:(

[SCREAMINXL]

With every mod my pickup has I feel the drivetrain is in no real danger of damage. The chips dont add CRAZY neck snapping horsepower to the 6.5 like they do for the duramax, powerstroke and cummins. The reason we dont see huge gains is because the injection pump can not supply enough fuel. My 6.5 at 78-80mm of fuel is only about 200hp at the wheels. From what I have read(not seen)most 6.5 cranks fail from bad harmonic balancers and lack of lubrication.

[torque454]

I have the kennedy high power chip and so far so good but I have not done any high power heavy hauling and before I do I will install a transmission temperature gauge. Stock, I could pull my 21.5 ft. RV trailer up pretty long and steep hills at 90 kph. no problem but I had to back off for climbing engine temperature so I'm pretty sure that heat will be the limiting factor.:(

You have a 94 which has the single t-stat cooling system. If you changed to the 97+ water pump and dual-tstat cooling system (walt sells the kit for this) it would probably overcome the engine temperature problem.

[torque454]

With every mod my pickup has I feel the drivetrain is in no real danger of damage. The chips dont add CRAZY neck snapping horsepower to the 6.5 like they do for the duramax, powerstroke and cummins. The reason we dont see huge gains is because the injection pump can not supply enough fuel. My 6.5 at 78-80mm of fuel is only about 200hp at the wheels. From what I have read(not seen)most 6.5 cranks fail from bad harmonic balancers and lack of lubrication.

Is your chip an 80hp chip? The 80hp chip only puts you up to close to what the new diesels make. We should all bug stanadyne until they make a high volume injection pump for the 6.5 :D Altho with the indirect injection I dont know if it could ever be what a direct injected engine is. I tend to agree on the cranks failing from a bad balancer, but I just wasnt sure if that was really all that caused it, or if they were just a weak point in the 6.5 or what. The block webbing or whatever its called that is weak is another concern.

[Oldsmoke]

Yah, the original factory water pump with 285,000 Kms. is probably due to blow any day so I will probably install the upgrade high capacity water pump and dual thermostat kit.

My OEM in radiator transcooler has always seemed to do the job. Are the aftermarket oil radiator type transcoolers very effective? Some people say I need one?

[torque454]

I would assume they are, mine came from the factory with one of the external oil and transmission coolers. But mine is a 2500, not a 1500. It would be about the same as one of the aftermarket ones. Dont have any exact measurements but its probably a 12x12-ish. I think it goes thru the radiator first and then thru the external cooler.

[SCREAMINXL]

Only SS and Westers offer two power levels for their chips and programmed ECMs. The high hp chips are all about the same. They all max out the the fuel deliverly of the injection pump.

[deerefanatic]

Exactly........

Oh, and torque454, are you sure that's a transcooler and not engine oil coolers? My 1500 has two up front, both are engine oil I believe as the tranny fluid flows through the radiator..........

Yah, I think the 6.5 could benefit from a High Output IP..... BUT, will it hold together? The little Mercedes 5-banger 3.0 can generate massive horse power with a High Output IP, and it holds together. So yes, an IDI engine can make big HP, it's just a matter of can it handle it?

[Oldsmoke]

OK, I will look into the external cooler idea. I was unaware that it came as factory equipment on the 2500's.

About the 300SD Mercedes tho....they are in fact an IDI engine, known for their durability but boost levels over 15psi not recommended.

[Chevylover]

Yes it is a tranny cooler in the 2500. Mine got a totalof 5 coolers.

1. Water
2. Aircondition
3. Engine oil
4. Transmission oil
5. Powersteering oil


Cu,
Sven

[torque454]

Exactly........

Oh, and torque454, are you sure that's a transcooler and not engine oil coolers? My 1500 has two up front, both are engine oil I believe as the tranny fluid flows through the radiator..........

Yah, I think the 6.5 could benefit from a High Output IP..... BUT, will it hold together? The little Mercedes 5-banger 3.0 can generate massive horse power with a High Output IP, and it holds together. So yes, an IDI engine can make big HP, it's just a matter of can it handle it?

I dont know why they would use 2 oil coolers, why not just one big one?. On alot of trans coolers (that arent super huge like the one i pulled from a 6L powerstroke truck, the size of a small radiator but havnt used yet) they do run the trans thru the radiator as well as thru the additional cooler.This gives them extra cooling power. Im not saying you're wrong, I just dont see why they would do such a thing.

Also yes i can see the 6.5 capable of big power if the fuel system could support it but I, like you, wonder if it can handle it. Like i said with all of walts uprades and stuff the 6.5 would likly be around 600 ft lb. You might be able to get more out of a mechanically injected 6.5 because I think they will move more fuel.

[torque454]

Yes it is a tranny cooler in the 2500. Mine got a totalof 5 coolers.

1. Water
2. Aircondition
3. Engine oil
4. Transmission oil
5. Powersteering oil


Cu,
Sven

I dont *think* that I have a power steering cooler. However I havnt actually gone to the truck and looked for it. I just noticed the trans oil and engine oil coolers. They're pretty obvious behind the grille.

[Chevylover]

I dont *think* that I have a power steering cooler. However I havnt actually gone to the truck and looked for it. I just noticed the trans oil and engine oil coolers. They're pretty obvious behind the grille.

The power steering cooler is directly behind the high beam lamp on the driver side vertically. If look into the grill from the middle of the grill sideways behind the high beam, you should see it, if you have one.

Look also here :

http://www.lmctruck.com/icatalog/cd/images/0125.jpg/bmi_orig_img/0125.jpg


Cu,
Sven

[firetruck]

Also yes i can see the 6.5 capable of big power if the fuel system could support it but I, like you, wonder if it can handle it. Like i said with all of walts uprades and stuff the 6.5 would likly be around 600 ft lb.

I think the 6.5 could handle the power. Remember this video clip?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1641713166467266832&q=6.5+chevrolet+diesel+video.google&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

With the two injector pumps that thing could theoretically be putting out more than 160 mm of fuel! I am also sure that other mods were done to the engine, but you can only take the mods so far the core is still a 6.5 block.

[torque454]

I think the 6.5 could handle the power. Remember this video clip?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1641713166467266832&q=6.5+chevrolet+diesel+video.google&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

With the two injector pumps that thing could theoretically be putting out more than 160 mm of fuel! I am also sure that other mods were done to the engine, but you can only take the mods so far the core is still a 6.5 block.

I thought about this too, firetruck. Its hard to say what his mods are to the engine tho, other than the obvious. He might even have one of those aftermarket blocks that claim to fix the weak spots in the 6.5s blocks.

[torque454]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6245878663549449356&q=6.2+diesel&total=91&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5 Look at this 6.2 :O He burns the tread totally off the tire until it sparks on the steel belts and then blows out.

[murd450]

that wasent very smart ! you know what those steel belts do to the wheal well and to the paint on the quarter?:cool:

[Oldsmoke]

I talked to my buddy who who has owned and fiddled with a number of 300SDs. He says they are capable of over 50% increases in power just by increasing fuel and boost. I guess I had it wrong.:eek:

[fullauto4u]

I think the 6.5 could handle the power. Remember this video clip?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1641713166467266832&q=6.5+chevrolet+diesel+video.google&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

With the two injector pumps that thing could theoretically be putting out more than 160 mm of fuel! I am also sure that other mods were done to the engine, but you can only take the mods so far the core is still a 6.5 block.

That thing is sick! :D

[sshewins]

For starters, the 80 HP chip does not deliver 80 HP all by itself. I relies on additional mods that go along with it and support it. I have the 40 HP version and I can testify, I didn't get all 40 horses by itself. I had to add other stuff with it.

Secondly, the stock crank will snap in half. pure and simple. Its cast iron. Scat Crank makes a cast steel version which is much stronger. Next on the list is the main caps. They NEED to be splayed if you wish to have the block survive serious HP. A girdle would be next on the list of things to add to keep the block stiff.

Intercoolers are also needed to bring the IAT's back down to a reasonable temp. Which leads me to this next item. 18:1 pistons. I know some of you wrongly believe they are only for all out race trucks, but not so. They allow more air to be forced into the chamber and then, more fuel (you have to maintain the air to fuel ratio) can be squeezed in.

Once you do these things, you can put on a cummins/holset HX-35 turbo and see boost around 20+ psi.

These things are all built around each other. One thing by itself won't do much (some-yes), but start combining these things and they build upon the last thing you did and pretty soon, you'll see 300HP+ at wheels.

[torque454]

Naw the 80hp chip requires a 4" exhaust as well. I dont know how much a 6.5 block could take. The 80hp chip would only put it at about 270hp, but thats at the flywheel i beleive. I dont know how much boost the chip pushes but its bound to be 10-15 psi. I dont know about the crank, if it could take the 550ft lb or not but i havnt heard of anyone breaking a crank due to having the chip. and i guess if the engine wasnt capable of it they wouldnt sell it. but i dunno.

[deerefanatic]

Yah, IDI engines are capable of massive power, just not as easily as DI engines....

Just take the Mercedes engines for instance. There are guys running 350hp out of 5 cylinder, 3.0L IDI diesels, and they're DAILY DRIVERS!! And holding together just fine...... Running like 40psi of boost, tricked out injection pumps, 3-4" exhaust, huge intercoolers, etc..... And that's with STOCK Crank, bearings, pistons, heads, & blocks....... Obviously the turbo and IP are not stock... :cool:

It just goes to show, it's not the fact that it's IDI that kills the 6.5....... It's the fact that it just wasn't designed to be anything more than a cheap economy engine...........

6.5 = Budget Minded = So-So performance and longevity........

Mercedes OM617 = Engine for Cost-no-object Car = So-So performance with excellent longevity and infinite performance potential........

[SCREAMINXL]

In full support of sshewins the only way to get anything close to the 80hp gain you need all the mods. Anyone who thinks they can just plug in a chip/ecm and get 80hp with the 6.5 turbo diesel has not read up on this engine.

Someone please make a forged steel crank for the 6.5 GM since GM was unable to get their head out of the thing 3 feet below it when building a diesel engine.

[sshewins]

I would have to say that its not so much of added power, but more of the harmonic balancer and the weak crank that causes crank failure. Meaning when the balancer goes, the crank ain't far behind. Added power speeds things up, but the cast steel version adds strength. There is a place in MI that sells 18:1 short blocks w/ forged cranks, but we're talkin almost $4500 (it does come w/ a warrenty) He also builds/sells 400HP twin turbo'd marine 6.5s. Note: not very practical for under-hood applications.

Fluiddamper make a far more reliable balancer than GM, but like anything else, its more pricey.

In the hands (so to speak) of the right chip/program, the 5068 pump from the 94's are supposed to be able to really push the fuel through it. Meaning more fuel out of the box, but like I said, you'll need a chip from say, Westers and a bigger turbo. Again with the domino affect.

[surreysinner]

Since you need a tons of other mods to obtain 80hp, i call "FALSE ADVERTISING".

[Oldsmoke]

Has anyone put a truck with this chip and related mods on a dyno? :confused:

[torque454]

Has anyone put a truck with this chip and related mods on a dyno? :confused:

If i ever make it that far with mine i'll try lol.