My BioDiesel Adventure!

[christja]

After a lot of reading i came to the conclusion that i could learn no more about making my own biodiesel. Trying it out was the only way i could move on to the next step. I collected the ingredients (methanol, Lye, veg oil). When using new oil its a pretty simple process. mix lye and methanol then add to oil and mix 20 minutes. let it settle and the biodiesel will come out on top. Worked like a charm. Ive got 2 liters of bio diesel sitting outsid my house that im letting settle out for a day or two then ill be adding in into my rig :) When using new oil it costs about the same as pertrol diesel. my next trial will be with waste veg oil. The process is a little more involved but worth it in the long run! Ill let you know how it works out.:cool:

[scoobert]

what did you use vegi oil? or motor oil?

[christja]

I used vegi oil

[LowCarbn]

Congrats on taking the first big step!

Be careful: this hobby has many degrees of risk, including becoming addicted.

Do you plan to wash your biodiesel?

I wash mine. It is an extra step but gets rid of unreacted methanol and soaps. If there is any "free" glycerin left in the biodiesel, water wash will remove it too.

I use waste veg oil, titrate each batch, use KOH instead of NaOH, use 20% methanol, react at ~130F.

I have used this to fuel a 2001 VW Golf TDI with good results.

I am new to GM diesels and am in the process of getting a 1994 Blazer 6.5L TD ready to run BD. Small amounts blended with diesel in tank have been successful so far.

Exception: cheap-o Fram fuel filter has a gasket that swells in BD then seeps fuel. BD is very hard on certain plastics and older hose/fuel line materials. I contacted Wix re: their filter gasket and they it is "ok" with BD.

Best of luck, and be careful.

[christja]

I had a hangup in the process. It appeared to work, the glycerine settled out, i syphoned off the biodiesel that was on top. I washed 150mL in 150mL of water and i got "mayonaise" Im not sure what happened so i reprocessed the biodiesel again with 100mL of methanol and 3.5g NaOH thismorning and it appears that more glycerine settled out. What do you think happened?

Any insights from an experianced maker would be great!

Thanks!!

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon

The reaction did not run to completion for some reason.

Consider these:
not enough NaOH
reaction temp too low
not enough mixing
not enough reaction time

The production of more glycerin on second reaction points to monoglycerides or diglycerides remaining after your first reaction. These will act as "emulsifiers" and may form creamy biodiesel emulsions when mixed forcefully with water. Unreacted oil (ie triglyceride) may also be present, but as with biodiesel, it does not mix well with water unless an emusifier is present.

Don't be discouraged. As is said and is so true, we learn more from mistakes.

LC

[christja]

I just picked up heater to try to warm up the oil when i add the methoxide. I think that was the problem with the first batch. The instructions didnt mention anything about keeping the temp of the mixture above any specific degree. Where are you located, and where do you get your methanol? Im having a pain trying to find it locally in any smaller quantities that 55 gal!!

Thanks

[Husker 6.5]

I just picked up heater to try to warm up the oil when i add the methoxide. I think that was the problem with the first batch. The instructions didnt mention anything about keeping the temp of the mixture above any specific degree. Where are you located, and where do you get your methanol? Im having a pain trying to find it locally in any smaller quantities that 55 gal!!

Thanks

Out here in Nebraska during the summer we have this wonderful thing called Sprint Car Racing. They run on a Methanol/Nitro blend. The local track has a1000 gal tank of it in the pits so the teams can mix their own fuel. My neighbor and I are planning on buying ours from the track for the first few batch runs. Depending on how much BD we use between my 6.5 and his 84 F350 6.9, we may just buy a 55 drum at a time to batch out 80 gal a week.

[LowCarbn]

Jon,

Husker has the right idea. Race tracks and racing fuel supply houses are the best bet and will sell it in 5 gallon "pails" (sometimes special order) or in bulk if you bring your own container.

I have a good source in SoCal--can't suggest anything in Walnut Creek.

Reaction temp is important especially if you intend to use WVO or anything with animal fats because they need to be fully "melted" in order to react.

Heat the oil only and eliminate all ignition sources when you pour in the methoxide.

LC

[christja]

It appears that my first batch has turned into jelly :( I picked up a water heater element an im going to make up a mini reactor with the heater, temp guage and place for the mixer. Im hooked now, I wanna make it work!!:)

[christja]

I finished my mini processor!! I also discovered what happend with my first batch. I was only using 500 mL of vegi oil instead of the 1 L called for. Another case of not reading the bottle correctly.

[christja]

Dang, i made up a 2 liter processor and it seems to have worked, but then when i did a wash test it came out with a thick layer of "mayo" sandwiched between water and bio diesel. What the heck it the problem! I used new oil (2 liters) 400 mL of HEET fuel line antifreeze and 7g of NaOH. i kept the temp up at 130-140 for 30 min sturring time. I just dont know what the problem is.:confused:

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/8599/pic0083tu5.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3438/pic0086df4.jpg

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon,
Your middle layer may not be too bad, depending:

Was this your first water wash in the photo?
Did you share vigorously or moderately?

The middle is almost certainly an emulsion, but it looks to me like it will "break" into an upper and lower layer with time. When that happens, drain off the wash water completely, add more fresh water, and shake/mix a little easier.

The risk of emulsion is higher in the first water wash.

Also, next time, for the first wash, add a small amount of white vinegar to the wash water and be a bit more gentle in the first wash.

I have made lots of emulsions in my early batches with used veggie oil. It is trickier because of fatty acids that should not be present in virgin oil. But is your oil is old...

Also, you may want to consider more NaOH. I will check my references and report back.

LC

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon,

My notes show a range of 3.4-5.0 gm/L of virgin oil have been recommended by various internet sources. The high range 5gm/L was from "Girl Mark" Alovert's recipe and she is well regarded in this area.

If your NaOH is less potent by weigh, you may need more. Remember NaOH will pick up water if left open and since you measure by gram, you might be thin on NaOH.

Again, full reactions leave less mono- or diglycerides and less chance for emulsion.

Finally, check your balance. One mL of water = 1 gm, etc.

LC

[christja]

My oil is new, my NaOH is 99.9% pure. I shook it pretty hard for 5 seconds and then let it settle. the middle layer is about 3/8 inch thick now. I washed the whole batch and came out with about 1.5 liters.

I made a new batch today with 250 mL methanol and 4g NaOH per Liter. Its settling now, ill wash gently tomorrow several times and see how that works. maybe i should bump up to 5g NaOH per liter? Less Methanol?

Jon

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7017/pic0087wo6.jpg
After 24 hrs settling

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2694/pic0088xr1.jpg
Washed Batch

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2366/pic0092cc8.jpg
3 1/2" straight exhaust

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3786/pic0089yw2.jpg
My Truck

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon

I have read that it is best to keep an "overage" of methanol in your reaction. The downside is only that it wastes methanol. The upside is it helps complete the reaction. Most of the excess methanol ends up in the glycerin layer. In theory, only ~12% is needed, but 20-25% is required for home brew methods (ref. Journey to Forever)

As for NaOH, I don't have enough direct experience, but I can say that with KOH I use 7gm/L with good results. The conversion ratio for these is 1.4 to 1 (KOH to NaOH) meaning the 7gm of KOH I've been using is equal to 5gm NaOH/L. Also, check that your balance is measuring acurately. It can be tricky to measure small amounts.

A standard Jefferson nickle weighs ~5gm. Check your balance.

Things to look for in a good reaction:
When methoxide is mixed into warm oil, it blends in rapidly and the whole mix may show a couple of "color changes" in the first 3-5 minutes.

After mixing is shut down, the start of settling can be seen in as soon as 10 minutes.

After 12 hours to overnight, there is a very clear "cut" between your biodiesel layer and glycerin. It should be a sharp single line. Your biodiesel should be clear at this point. There should only be two layers.

Water wash:
Remove the biodiesel from the top (or glycerin from the bottom via siphon).

For first wash, add water slowly. I have found that a slow trickle into the biodiesel works well.

If you can, mix in some vinegar into the water before adding to biodiesel. For every liter of biodiesel, plan on using about the same amount of water, split over two or three wash cycles.

I live where the water is fairly hard and alkaline so I add white vinegar at about 25-50 mL per liter.

I also always do a final water wash with straight water.

The wash water will be white like diluted milk in the first wash, and with each additional wash, it will be clearer.

The biodiesel will become cloudy with time. This is normal! It is due to small amounts of water that will come out with drying.

Washing for me goes much easier at room and fluid temps above ~65F

Drying:
Get rid of all liquid water that settles to the bottom, and let the Biodiesel sit in an un-opened container. Moving low-humidity air over or into the biodiesel will speed things along. With time it will become remarkably clear. There will probably be some liquid water or sediment in the bottom. Get rid of this before storing. Recheck later.

I can send/post some pictures if it would be helpful.

Good luck,
LC

P.S. I now make either a 50 or 80 Liter batch following a standard recipe that works well for me. I have not had any failed reactions in over 20 batches. I had some problems in the beginning. It just takes a bit of practice. EVERYONE will have some bumpy parts in the begining. And very cool truck--how do you like your tires?

[christja]

Ok, I washed about 200 mL with just straight water, and the rest of the batch with water/vinegar mix, it seems the straight water causes more emulsion than the vinegar water.

The little text mix of 10mL oil/water i did after the last wash has really cleared up so im feeling pretty good about that. Just have to wait to see if the rest of the batch will clear up.

Do you run your batch through a fuel/water separator? Just got a racor off ebay for $65, i though it might help the clearing happen faster if i ran it through the filter. What do you think?

[LowCarbn]

Jon,

The fuel filter with water separator is a good idea for larger batches as a final filter. But I would advise that if you have any visible water in your batch, or any "middle layer", going after it with a filter is not the way to go.

Without any filtering, in small batch size, you will be able to get really good sparkling clear biodiesel. After the third, sometimes fourth wash, and after letting the biodiesel dry, it will be very clear. There may be a bit of sediment on the bottom. At that point I will sometimes filter using a simple in-line particulate fuel filter and let it settle some more. After the fuel is crystal clear and no sediment in the bottom, I will filter (using a "final" filter) into my vehicle.

I can offer some tips on how to dry, but first you need to get it washed to the point that when you put in fresh water, and mix (ie. bubble wash) for a couple of hours, the water still looks crystal clear. If anything comes out in the wash it means you need to wash again.

Keep at it,
LC

[christja]

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8101/pic0095kz6.jpg
This is a pic of part of one batch. one jar has been washed but not dried and the other has been heated to 120 for several hours in a water bath. they looked identical before i heated the one. Is that the right way to "dry" or should i use a bubble stone and air pump? Ill let you know if it goes back cloudy when it cools down.

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon,

Congrats! You have made some really good looking, crystal clear, renewable, low emmision, high lubrication, sweet smelling, lower flash point, higher cetane, biodiesel.

Using heat to dry gets it clear quickly, but it does not necessarily push the water out of the fuel. A water bath was a great idea--no ignition source and able to keep temp uniform. It will be tricky to do in larger batches. However you could use a hot water loop and heat exchanger.

You are correct to keep an eye on it to see it it turns cloudy again. The change from cloudy to clear to cloudy again can occur, and if so is due to water going from microscopic droplets (that scatter light) to soluble water (like water vapor in air) as the BD is warmed, then condensing again.

The use of an airstone and aquarium bubbler for DRYING is something I've discovered works very well. I think water vapor gets caught in the air and out it goes.

What I do is make a loop of perforated black drip irrigation tubing (much more resistant to BD than plastic parts in most air stones) and run dry air through the BD. Sometimes I will blow air from an old computer fan directly onto the top surface as well.

To get dry air you can put the aquarium pump into a bucket and cover with absorbent (even Kitty Litter helps) in cloth bags. There are a variety of ways of drying air but in fact you really don't need to do so if humidity is not too high.

In any case, regardless of how you dry, there may be some residue or even liquid water that falls out to the bottom. Time is your friend--let it settle and siphon BD from the top OR make a small siphon with a pick-up tube to target the water and suck it out.

Lots of biodiesel folk use bubbles for water washing and it does a great job. I have a separate setup for that with a "bleed" valve so as to not bubble too much (in the first wash especially).

I have used about 20 gallons of my home brew (mixed ~1:1 with diesel) in my 1994 Blazer with only problem being gasket on the fuel filter swelling. This was with a FRAM. I will use WIX going forward.

But I am concerned that the fuel system: lines, gaskets, etc. are not 100% ready for B100.

My VW Gold TDI 2001 has done great on B100. But remember--B100 is a warm weather fuel!

Before putting it into your good looking truck, there are some quality control steps you should consider.

All the best,
LC

[christja]

Sure enough, got back from work and the darn jar was clouded up almost as bad as before...but not quite. I picked up an aquarium pump and i just washed it again to make sure there wasnt any soap left in, the BD and water seperated quickly but the water is still a little cloudy. I think ill wash it a few more times just to be on the safe side. I called GM and asked about my 95' before i filled up with b50 at a station in utah and they told me that mine was fine with BD.

Great idea about the pipe instead of the stones, i got a pack of 6 stones with the pump so im going to use them till they are garbage. For larger batches tho i found this pretty cool idea that someone else is doing. http://www.biodieselpictures.com/files/front_closeup_witrh_fan_222.jpg
It looks like a good setup.

My dad has an old 70's ford diesel tractor that we are going to run it through to see how it works before putting anything into mine.

About how long does it take you to dry yours? ive been reading some people are dry within a few hours to a day. Mine seems to be taking forever! Im already gathering parts for an appleseed processor for when i scale up!

[LowCarbn]

Generally I will dry a 10-15 gallon volume overnight, and it will be quite clear in the morning. I dry the fuel in polypropylene bins that are reasonably clear, and my endpoint is to be able to see the detail of a light bulb (on the outside of the bin!) very clearly through about 3 feet of fuel.

The picture of the drying tank with PVC "spray" pipe and fan looks like it will get the job done, but I would rather run a 5 watt air pump overnight vs. a 300 watt fluid pump for several hours. I also feel I can let mine run unattended since I am only pumping air.

Occasionally I will speed things up by using a submersible aquarium heater. This is helpful if air and fuel temp is ~65 or less.

Even a little 60 watt heater set at ~90 F will make a difference. I carefully suspend it in the fuel so that it not quite submerged and well away from the plastic wall of the bin. I do not leave the heater unattended!

Who did you contact at GM? I would like to see what they say about my 1994. Can you give me the contact info?

Also I am a newbie to this and other Forums, and have not figured how to save my photo in a file size small enough to post. I will work on that.

[christja]

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/191/pic0096yh5.jpg

After my last water wash, i set it up with the pump for about 2 hours and bada bing bada boom! Crystal clear(yellow) Pure Vegi Oil Bio-Diesel!!! I think im going to make another batch or 2 in my 2 liter reactor and try the 5% pre-wash. Have you ever tried that?

I did a search on google from my cell phone and got the technical support at GM headquarters...I dont have the number anylonger, but you could probably find in by searching around a bit.

To resize my pics the easy i just host them for free on www.imageshack.us. They have a selection to resize any pic you want to a number of different sizes.:D :D

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon,

I have not tried the water pre-wash, but what the heck, time to mix it up a little. I will have a go next batch and report back.

The one downside that I can thing of is it adds bulk and weight to your glycerin, meaning there is that much more to get rid of. But if you are going to compost it, no problem.

While it is true that the glycerin (with some methanol, residual lye and possibly soaps) is a good de-greaser, you rapidly end up with a lifetime supply. I was cleaning wheels with it for a while and it works good so long as you also use enough elbow grease. It clings to vertical surfaces and rinses well with water.

Best of luck and be careful,
LC

[christja]

just ran a 2 liter batch with the 5% pre wash. Seems to have worked perfectly. Im interested in making a still to pull the methanol back out to reuse. It would be good to save the mone on that. Im also looking into making a stove to burn the glycerine. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me8.html

Ive got my first free 5 gallons of peanut oil, im going to try making some with the used oil now.

I love this stuff!!!

P.S. Do you know any easy quality tests i could run on my finished BD?

[christja]

Just seprated out the glycerine after 24 hours settling time on the batch with 5% pre wash. I washed it 2 times after that. the first time it was looking pretty well clean to me. the water droped out minutes after shaking up.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2743/pic0098pk9.jpg
the bottle on the left is the 2nd wash and the right is the first wash. I was amazed that it took such a hard shaking and seperated right out with hardly any soap!
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/244/pic0099me3.jpg
This is a cose up of the 2nd wash water.

5% wash will speed up the process time a bit.

[LowCarbn]

http://www.b100supply.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.display&feature_id=115

Try the link above for a nice list and discussion of checks, but you are already doing a couple of things right in my opinion:

-- Washing until the wash water is clear.

-- Drying until the BD is clear.

-- Checking that there is fast phase separation between final BD and water when mixed.

I also keep a sample in a mason jar from most batches, with date on cap and notes on masking tape. I changed a fuel filter on my VW Golf today and used some "vintage 9/05" fuel still perfectly clear and showing no sediment.

Some have shown a bit of sediment over time.

The other thing to do is make all your gear and sure storage containers are inspected and kept very clean and dry.

I've been tempted to send some of my fuel out for full analysis--there are places that will do it.

LC

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon

I've wondered about trying to recover methanol, read up a bit on it, and decided to do it right (safely) was too much of a roadblock for me.

I did try it once on a small scale with poor results.

There are a couple of things that make it dangerous, but clearly it can be done.

BTW a 5% prewash would complicate recovery efforts. Glad it works for you and I will try it next batch.

Sounds to me like you are getting hooked on this hobby!!! Good luck with the used peanut oil.

LC

[LowCarbn]

My main driver is a VW Golf TDI. After 14K miles I had to swap out nozzles. After much hard thought, I must conclude that my B100 homebrew contributed to it.

The nozzle swap made a huge difference in ability to maintain speed up a local steep grade. It is possible that use of injector cleaner or some dino diesel may have kept the nozzles clean.

What the heck, this is all about the learning, and nozzles in a VW are no big deal.

But what bothers me is if my fuel contributed to this, what went wrong?

My best guess is partially unreacted batches + quality issues with waste veggie oil feedstock.

Anyone who is thinking about making biodiesel, I don't want this to discourage you. Make the best fuel you can and monitor your fuel system. Use it blended to start.

LC

[christja]

interesting... IVe run about 3 liters mixed with a tank so far with no problems. Im probably going to mix to B50 just to be on the safe side. Or maybe i can pick up a benz or VW diesel for cheap and use that as my daily driver.

Im scaling up to a 5 gallon processing unit with waste oil. check out www.biodieselvideos.com

[Husker 6.5]

My main driver is a VW Golf TDI. After 14K miles I had to swap out nozzles. After much hard thought, I must conclude that my B100 homebrew contributed to it.

The nozzle swap made a huge difference in ability to maintain speed up a local steep grade. It is possible that use of injector cleaner or some dino diesel may have kept the nozzles clean.

What the heck, this is all about the learning, and nozzles in a VW are no big deal.

But what bothers me is if my fuel contributed to this, what went wrong?

My best guess is partially unreacted batches + quality issues with waste veggie oil feedstock.

Anyone who is thinking about making biodiesel, I don't want this to discourage you. Make the best fuel you can and monitor your fuel system. Use it blended to start.

LC

Remember that BD is a solvent and it is very possible that you loosened up gunk in your tank and fuel system, which then wound up in your filter and injectors. Remember, with high pressure Common Rail injection systems such as the VW TDI, D-Max, Powerstroke, etc., the orifices in the injectors are much smaller than in IDI mechanical injector systems such as our 6.5's, and the slightest bit of junk will plug them up whereas it'd pass through mech. injectors. Hope you changed your fuel filter(s) with the new injectors.

[christja]

Well, My first two attemps in my new, bigger processor have been successful!!

I did one 12 liter batch with no prewash and 1 10 liter batch with a prewash. The clear BD in the picture is the 12 liter batch. total cost per gallon $1.37

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4820/pic0107jj4.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7606/pic0105eg6.jpg

http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/264/pic0103dv5.jpg

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon,

You are making progress and getting hooked at the same time.

I can't tell what you are using for mixing, but I have found that a "squirrel cage" paint mixer is best. I am using it up to 80 liters batch size. It moves a lot of fluid at low RPM, and gives good mixing without making an oil tornado.

Today I tried the 5% prewash for the first time. I will report back soon. Overall I like the idea alot.

My problem with injector nozzles was due to un-reacted oil/fat mixed in with BD. The saga was shared on Fred's TDI page. Bottom line: if you are dealing with fats or grease that are in your oil, you need higher reaction temperature and longer mixing time.

Today my son and I (mostly my son!!) installed a mechanical turbo waste gate control instead of the vacume actuated stock unit. Simple install and so far so good.

Best of luck with your BD adventure!!

LC

[christja]

Im pretty well hooked. Yesterday i just ran about 8 gallons mixed with a full tank of diesel#2. The Performance was identical if not better. I noticed right off that the exhaust smelled like deep fried turkeys :)

I have a question about something that i saw in my byproduct the last batch. here is the picture.
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9602/pic0116ge5.jpg
Any ideas on the white balls? As to the un processed fats in the oil, ive been heating my oil to 150 before adding the methoxide. just to be safe i keep it about 140 for 20 to 30 minutes after the methoxide is added.

I made my own custom mixer this is what it looks like close.
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7866/pic0144gc0.jpg
It seems to be working pretty well (with the small 12 liter batches ive been making)

I went to the race track and got methanol but it was really expensive...or so i thought 4.95 per Gal. Seems a little high to me. Ill continue to look for a cheaper source. What to you pay LC?

On your Manual wastegate controller...Where did you get it and how much do they cost? IVe replaced the dang vac pump in my truck 3 times (at $120 each time) in the past few years. Next time it goes im just gonna go to the manual.

Do you mix your BD batches in a 55 Gallon drum, open processor?

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon,

I can't offer any thoughts on pearl droplets. Are you still using new veggie oil or have you added some used/waste oil to your feedstock?

Your fabricated mixer blade looks like it means business, but probably needs high RPM to get things going. Not a problem if you are set up for it.

The squirrel cage design will move and "fold" fluid very efficiently at low RPM. That may be an advantage in some cases--not as much noise, better control, etc.

http://www.squirrelmixer.com/

As a happy note, my concerns that I had managed to cause pre-mature failure to nozzles because of fuel problems seems to be wrong. It appears that my mass air flow sensor (MAF) is dead or dying, and it caused much of the power loss for my VW TDI.

Re: boost control, here is the link. Too soon to say overall, but install was a snap.

http://www.heathdiesel.com/P/HDP1243/

Best,
LC

[christja]

Im stumped on the pearls too. Maybe i mixed it too long??

Im using totally used oil now that titrates to .3 g/Lye.

Ill have to check into that squirrelmixer. mine is pretty noisy at mixing speeds. They look pretty cool on the site. Where did you pick yours up?

How do you dewater your used oil batches?

[Husker 6.5]

Im stumped on the pearls too. Maybe i mixed it too long??

Im using totally used oil now that titrates to .3 g/Lye.

Ill have to check into that squirrelmixer. mine is pretty noisy at mixing speeds. They look pretty cool on the site. Where did you pick yours up?

How do you dewater your used oil batches?

Glad it was your failing MAF, and not your BD, LC. On that note I read back in the thread that you store and use "vintage" batches of BD (08/05, aahh, now that was a fine batch, notice the saffron color and smell the heady french fry bouquet:D ) and long term storage of BD for future use is not neccessarily a good idea. Stability has always been an issue with BD, especially home-brewed, and some of the break-down products can be quite detrimental to your fuel injection system. Mono, di-, and triglycerides are common, and lead to injector coking, to name one.

Because of quality control issues, the major manufacturers (Bosch, Stanadyne, et al) will NOT recommend anything over B5, and will not honor warranty work on any system that runs over a B5 mix.

For an excellent article on BD vs DD, real-world power (dyno) and mileage results, the short commings of home-brewed BD, and the manufacturers stand, see this month's (April) issue of Diesel Power.

Keep on brewin'. Hope to have my neighbor's and mine on-line later this summer.

Husker 6.5

[christja]

Check out my new squirrel cage mixer.:D

I scrounged this and one other like it from some toasted carpet fans from my work. I think it will mix alot of liquid...FAST

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5536/pic0160co6.jpg

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon,
Hi Husker,

Thanks for input and discussion. My VW Golf has gone from a "putter" to a "driver" with upgraded nozzles and a new MAF. No kidding, my next repair/upgrade is going to be brakes!

White pearls: do these look like tightly compacted bubbles? If so they are from air being whipped into oil during reaction. This is common with WVO and is one way soap shows up.

If solid, and they look like round bits of floating bacon fat--well that may be exactly what they are. Sometimes it takes a bit more heat, with mixing, to be sure all fat has melted and is ready to react.

Reaction process: there comes a time when open tank processor no longer makes sense or is outside of the "safety zone". Methanol fumes are toxic and flammable. That said, in open air and with reasonable precaution, I am comfortable with my 50 and 80 liter batch sizes. But there are ignition sources--drill, static sparks--that can ignite methanol vapors if of high enough concentration.

I have been called on the carpet on Fred's TDI club biodiesel forum for using an open tank.

Jon: That is one serious squirrel cage. It looks like you can clamp in steel rod to drive it. Stay at low RPM to start and BE PREPARED for it to want to wiggle and drift at higher speed. My squirrel mixer is driven by 3/8 drill motor clamped onto foldable work bench using custom mounting blocks.

Keep at it but always be careful,
LC

[LowCarbn]

It is important to mix oil as it is warmed. In my case, I use immersion heaters and the top oil temp rapidly rises. Without mixing, measuring temp at the top will give the wrong impression that the entire volume is warm and ready.

I think this is what happened to me during the cold weather we were having. The oil on the top of the tank was toasty warm but below, on the bottom, were some un-melted fats that did not react well.

[christja]

hey LC,

What do you think about using other types of oil in the biodiesel process? (ie. coconut oil) Ive read about a guy on one pacific island that has been doing it successfully as "straight oil" but i was curious about transesterfication of the coconut oil.

[LowCarbn]

There is a good discussion about feedstock oil at Journey to Forever. This section is a good start:

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/chemoils.html

Bottom line (from my reading) is any triglyceride (no longer the best term) will react in the transesterification reaction, producing three FAME molecules and one glycerin molecule per molecule of oil.

However, it it the chain length, level of saturation (double bonds) and other groups that may be on the fatty acid backbone that will determine properties of the FAME.

Coconut is a highly saturated oil, and will likely produce a stable but higher cloud point FAME. Not sure where you would get coconut oil or other palm oils. There are other palm oils that are produced commercially, and widely used for BD.

Hope you are having fun and be careful,
LC

[christja]

LC,

This is my first batch with some panda express oil. I washed it till the water looked clear, then dried it overnight and took some today and did the shake test and this is what i got.
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4563/pic0173nk4.jpg

Do you think it still needs washing? is that how dark it should be? The dried batch doesnt reall look as clear after being dried as some others ive done.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4971/pic0174ie9.jpg

am i on the right track??

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon,
HEY! You are a good photographer!

The color of the "Panda" fuel is fine--but you guessed it, washing was not adequate. Biodiesel produced from WVO can have a deep amber color. The first 10 gallons I purchased of commercially produced B100 was actually darker than your batch. So color and darkeness is not an issue, but transparency sure is.

One or two more wash steps would have allowed the haze-producing soaps to have been eliminated.

The BD also picked up water and is now hazy too.

There is little to be gained by rushing the last wash steps. In the last wash steps you can bubble, mix and agitate with almost zero risk of making an emulsion. So, if your wash water was clean in your last wash, yet you picked up haze in the wash "test" it probably means you did not wash long enough or should have used more vigorous washing.

The photo looks like the BD would dry to a very clear state. It is common for some water to "fall out" in the drying process. It makes sense to let that happen, then take the dry BD from the top, avoiding any "droplets" in the bottom of the container.

Jon--you are making rapid progress.

Best,
LC

[christja]

my progress would have been alot slower without your help! Thanks a million.

Ill rewash the batch with a more "vigorous" method. Have you done any stir washing? Ill give it a try and post some pics.

The oil titrated out to 2.3 G, which i believe is very good oil for Waste. Someone is putting in several new panda express locations close to my house :) If all their oil is this good, Ill be set

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon,

The 2.3 G is good assuming it is 2.3 grams/liter of additional NaOH, added on top of the 4 to 5 grams/liter you would use for un-used veg oil.

Using KOH, I will occasionally react at upwards of 10 gm/L total and get good results.

BTW the batch with the 5% prewash worked very well. The downsides are known (larger volume of gly layer, more difficult to recover WVO, etc.) but not an issue for me.

Happy to offer input,
LC

[LowCarbn]

I use KOH, but meant to say that the NaOH equivalent is above 10gm/L. If using KOH, the value becomes 14gm/L.

So you are at about total 8gm/L NaOH with your Panda Express oil, and that is better than my current supply.

[christja]

yes, correct on the 5 gm/L +2.3 gm/L. I just used my "squirel" mixer. Holy Crap! the drill was hardley moving and it was stiring great.

[firetruck]

Hey, I was wondering if anyone here has made biodiesel with oil that contained Magnesol? The manager of my local KFC says they use Magnesol to lengthen the life of their fry oil, and that this addition renders the oil unusable for biodiesel. Any thoughts?

[christja]

Thats a load of bull. You can use magnasol to wash biodiesel instead of water. They say it works better and is faster at removing contaminants. Check out www.fryerpower.com

"I just finished my first batch of biodiesel using the methanol removal/filtering described above. I used the 5% prewash method and ended up with 1100ppm soap in my raw biodiesel plus it settled in 1 hour instead of overnight. Then I recirculated/spray dried to remove the small amount of water added in the 5% prewash and to remove the methanol. I ended up with 450ppm soap. I could not get it to go any lower, even after a day of running the biodiesel through a 1 micron bag filter. I added 630 or so grams of Magnesol D60 (D-Sol) to my 42 gallon batch for the dry wash. Because of the 5% prewash and the methanol removal/filtering I was able to cut my magnesol usage down to .45% by weight. In other words, one 45 pound bag of magnesol will wash 1370 gallons of biodiesel using this method. That works out to 6.5 cents per gallon for magnesol shipped to someone within a few hundred miles of Tennessee ($15 shipping). It works out to $8.4 cents per gallon to someone in parts of Washington State or California ($40 shipping)."

Also look at this site Magnasol washing setup (www.burlingtonbiodiesel.org/reactor_ii.htm)

[fasair]

Hi Guys!

Great to see the biodiesel thing in here! We are a small husband & wife alternative energy company, solar, wind, small diesel gensets, biodiesel & SVO stuff. We are working on converting one of our 6.5KW 13 Horse Enclosed Deisel Gensets to run on SVO (Straight Veggie Oil), just getting started by ordering parts yesterday.

http://www.bluemtnenergy.net/My_Homepage_Files/Page3.html

Will keep you updated on our progress.:cool:

[firetruck]

[QUOTE=christja;3317]Thats a load of bull. You can use magnasol to wash biodiesel instead of water. They say it works better and is faster at removing contaminants. Check out www.fryerpower.com

I have heard of using the magnesol for washing, but does it affect the prosess since it has been added before hand and heated extensively? Also how does the magnesol washing affect the methanol recovery?

[christja]

Check out the biodiesel forums for more info. Ive never actually done it, so i can t say for sure.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751

[LowCarbn]

Hi Jon and Firetruck,

I can't see how using Magnesol to extend fryer oil life would make it unsuitable for biodiesel. The reason for using an oil extender is to reduce break-down contaminants from the veg oil. Reducing FFA's and other nasty stuff should help BD reaction.

The main question is how long has the oil been used and what is the acid value. If FFA content is high, shown by titration, it will be difficult to react. If Magnesol is not as good at sorbing FFA as it is other junk, it is possible the end result will be high acid. I will see what I can find on this.

As far as MeOH recovery, much of the recoverable MeOH is in the glycerin layer, so it is not an issue. The MeOH that is in the unwashed BD is most available for recovery prior to any wash effort, so likewise not an issue. Recovery only makes sense prior to washing.

Cheers,
LC