Anybody using alternative fuel in their 6.5?

[3bals]

Just wondering if anybody is using biodiesel, WVO or VO in their 6.5? Any issues, problems or advice?

Jody

[christja]

I put 2 tanks of biodiesel in mine in april last year. It was b-20, seemed to work fine for a while but then it started having lots of black smoke. Im not sure how much of it was the biodiesel and how much of it was my failing fuel pump, pmd, and vacuum pump. After it started running like crap i switched back and it started running like n"ormal"( without the above mentioned parts working correctly)

Jon

[Chevylover]

Just wondering if anybody is using biodiesel, WVO or VO in their 6.5? Any issues, problems or advice?

Jody


This engine or fuel pump isn't built for alternative fuels. Biodiesel is agressive against the rubber lines and the gaskets. V-Oil is like honey at the same temperature when diesel flows like water. You have to warm V-Oil to about 65° Celsius in a separate radiator circuit before you use it. Than you should use marine injectors because they can handle more fuel and it is not so easy to get V-Oil trough the OEM injectors. But the main problem is to hold the V-oil temp an 65° Celsius, because the electronic fuel pump (94-> 00) will give you an error code if the fuel temp is higher than 70° Celsius.

In my opinion the risk AND the costs are to high.



SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH - I'M GERMAN !

Cu,
Sven

[3bals]

I've been doing some reading about this issue. It seems that during the onset of using boidiesel, there may be some initial filter issues. Biodiesel is a strong solvent and tends to clean out your fuel system. Depending on the quality of the regular diesel fuel and the length of time using it will determine how fast if at all your filter will glog up. The information also says that this will clear up with time as the fuel system gets cleaned up. And yes, biodiesl is hard on fuel system parts that aren't designed to be used with boidiesl. I've read that a blend of biodiesl up to B-20 (20% biodiesel and 80% petro diesel) should work Ok without changing parts.

As far as WVO or SVO, there seems to be mixed reveiws on using them. Using straight VO, one would have to heat it for viscosity to be at or near the same as #2 diesel. It sounds like those that do this have gone to some sort of aftermarket lift pump to handle the heat. Then there are those who blend the WVO with other fuels like kerosne and #2 to thin it to work in the fuel system without heating.

During my reading, I haven't heard of anybody using any of these fuels in a 6.5, only in Fords and Dodges. That's why I asked.

It all sounds interesting and I'd like to try it. I just bought a new 10hp diesel motor for my lawn tractor and I figure that would be a good place to start experimenting. The 10hp Kohler that was on the tractor has blown a rod 5 times since it was new in the mid 70s and I'm tired of rebuilding it.

Anyhow just some thoughts,

Jody

[christja]

The ruber parts that arnt affected are made witn vitron rubber. Most if not all newer diesel makers use this. I called GM and asked about my 95 before i put it in and they said the rubber in 95 is vitron. This leads me to believe from 95 to the present vitron is used. im not sure when they started using it though.

[edycam]

I've been running B100 for 15000 miles now and no major problems yet. Just a PMD failure, but then I had a chance to upgrade to the FSD/#9. I know the fuel lines are okay (vitron) but don't know about the seals and gaskets inside the pumps. Lost a little power and milage, but the exhaust is much better on the lungs. There are articles stating power and milage lost with the low sulfur diesel. If this is true, I'd rather run bio. As for the warranty, they say no more than 5% is okay but its so low why even bother. I think many manufacturers give this number because most biodiesel is homemade with no QA/QC. I'm buying most of mine at the pump and will make a batch or two when I have time. My next project is converting my truck to SVO. It's working great on an old Mercedes.

[vggibrb]

one of the main advantages of running biodiesel is that it is a lubricant. these days most big rigs run a minimum of B2 for the lubricity.

[94wvosub]

I have been running staight veggi oil for about 2 years and just had my first problem (pmd) from the 160 deg F oil heating the pmd instead of the diesel cooling it. I have also run used motor oil deluted 50% with diesel ( don't breath the fumes!!!!!!).

[w_huisman]

Are you serious? Do you have a good ultra-low micron aftermarket fuel filter assembly?

[94wvosub]

I don't know if 5 micon is ultra low but yes a separate filter system and water separator. What would be ultra low?
I am of the understanding that there are metals in the oil, is there something that I'm missing?

[Steve4]

Hi - I'm a new guy on this forum and an avid fan of SS Diesel Supply. I don't know yet how to put the info on the bottom of the reply that discribes the vehicle you have so, in short, 1994 K3500 Ext.Cab-4X4 Dually w/177,000 miles on orginal engine. It has nearly everything SS Diesel sells on it as far as performance and upgrades.

I started out doing a lot of reseach on the UVO,WVO issue. I read all kinds of stories, problems, successes, and nightmares about this issue. I decided to do my own testing and experience. Got some used veggie from a local bar and grill. Filtered it (10 micron spin on fuel and water separator and a whole house filter), mixed it 50-50 with diesel fuel (#2 fuel oil) and placed it in a glass quart jar on my workbench and didn't move it for two weeks. Picked it up very carefully and found absolutly no separation or settlement. I had a Kubota tractor (w/3 cyl diesel) that spends about 4 to 5 hours a week mowing grass. I ran the tank nearly empty and put 5 gallons (1/2 tank) of this mixture in. It started great and ran great, but smells like french fries!!!
Ran about six tanks full through it with NO problems, but noticed that the fuel filter was getting a bit dirty, which they say the veggie oil will CLEAN the black sooty crap out of the tank and lines and the filter will catch it. Changed the filter once and have not had to change it again other than normal changes with unit servicing. That was THREE years ago, and absolutly NO problems. In fact, during the summer months I now run an 80% veggie and 20% diesel in it with absolutly no other modifications.

OK, here's the best part! After a year with the tractor, I started running the 50-50 mixture in the 94 Chevy. Pictures of the truck, engine compartment, and boat are listed on SS Diedel Supply photo gallery. I run 125 miles each way every weekend to my favorite Lake with this truck. After the first trip I changed the fuel filter (very dirty) and again after the fourth trip (dirty, but not as bad) and now only as normal service and the filters look like new!!! I have been running the used veggie now for two years and approx. 14,000 miles with no problems, as a matter of fact, I installed a small tank (snowmobile 6 gallon) in the bed of the truck this past summer, put in an electric tank switching valve, and put straight diesel fuel in it, straight filtered used veggie in the main tank and started the truck on diesel and after it is up to temperature, switch it over to straight veggie for the trip. About 3 or 4 miles to the end of the trip I switch it back on diesel to shut it off and then be able to start it on diesel. I did this after running the 80-20 mixture in it with only some minor early morning smoking and bucking for about 15 seconds on the 80-20. This truck had the original injectors in it when I purchased it and I put SS Diesel's Marine Injectors in it. It still has what appear to be the original glow plugs in it, and I suspect I may have one or more of them not working which would explain the slightly hard start on the 80-20. I just got a 99 K3500 which had a hard time starting with the 50-50 mixture and I found it had 3 out of 8 glow plugs not working at all. I replaced them with SS Diesel's Instant Heat Glow Plugs, and she starts now starts like a gas engine on the 50-50 in the winter months. Oh, I also replaced the injectors with Marine Injectors. Believe it or not, this truck has 171,000 miles on it and had what appeared to be the original injectors in it!!

Ok - enough said - I think you have to explore this use as per your own cercumstances, i.e., temperature, miles driven, modifications, equipment, and beliefs. I can't say any of you would have the same experience as I did or am having, but at $2.49 a gallon, about $65.00 a week in fuel expense, I felt it was worth the try. I went from $65.00 to about $2.00 a week expense and have saved literally thousands of dollars in fuel cost and so far (knock on wood) with no problems. Oh yea, I did have to replace the ORIGINAL lift pump on the 94, but with 177,000 miles and twelve years of work, it would be hard to even remotely blame that on the used veggie. And, even if you did, I will get into the thousands I have saved and replace it!!

In closing, let me say this, it is NOT an effortless prodject!! You have to COLLECT the oil, have SPACE to STORE it in CONTAINERS so it can settle. You have to have a PUMP, FILTERS, and CONTAINERS to MIX it in. You have to have DIESEL and a place to STORE it for mixing and TIME to do it all. I totalled all the costs of the equipment, divided it by the first 500 gallons and came up with a cost to me of around $1.40 per gallon for the first 500 gallon used, which paid for the costs of equipment which I now have for free, i.e., around 11 cents a gallon after the first 500.

Remember, this is ONE success story of which I will be glad to answer ANY questions about. There may be others, and I'm sure there are as many failure stories as well. GOOD LUCK!!!!

[christja]

Ive always wanted to do that with veggie oil. What kind of setup do you have to filter/seperate your oil? do you have any pics of your setup? I love the idea of such cheap fuel. Any pointers would be great!

[Steve4]

I don't have any pictures put will take some and post them soon. I use white 55 gal. plastic drums to mix the fuel and them pump it out, through the filters, out the hose and into the fuel tank on the trucks and tractor. Not very complicated at all once your set up.

[christja]

That would be great to see. Ive looked as some systems online...but they look really involved (pipes going everywhere!) Im just looking for something simple.

Thanks!! :-)

[3bals]

I've been experimenting with a WVO blend. I went on an 800 mile journey last week and it only cost $26 for the fuel used.

Liking the alternative fuel,

Jody

[christja]

Jody,

Are you just blending SVO with diesel? or are you doing something else?

Im starting a new business, bay area biodiesel supply. Sales of fuel and equipment to make your own. www.bayareabiodieselsupply.com

Just interested in what exactly is working in the 6.5

Jon

[grancito]

Hey you guys ¿ do you realise that he is not making diesel out of the veg oil, but simply burning it straight, mixed with some diesel? That is a much more economical way, instead of the chemical convertion with all it's expenses, time and loses. Bet the exhaust smells great.

[christja]

Thats what i thought he was doing but im not exactly sure what kind of procedure he is going through to mix... 50/50, 20/80...you know

[Husker 6.5]

Thats what i thought he was doing but im not exactly sure what kind of procedure he is going through to mix... 50/50, 20/80...you know
I've been e-mailing with Jody, lately, and he's told me about using WVO in his pickup on the trip he took, but didn't tell me what blend.

If you can get it through the pump, lines, and injectors, diesels will quite literally run on anything burnable. Not neccessarily desireable (like used motor oil or tranny fluid) but if you can get it to the right viscosity, or have a compensating IP (like our old deuce and a half's and five tons did in the "old" Army) you can burn anything.

Nice to see a post from you again, Jon. Missed your presence on the forum. How is your Biodiesel Adventure going?

Husker 6.5

P.S. The 5% that the manufacturers quote is for warranty period usage only. After that, they could care less what you run through it. There are several stations out here in soybean country that sell B20 and B100.

[3bals]

I'm using a blend of approx 80% WVO, 10% Kero, 5% RUG and some diesel fuel additives. The biggest secret is to let it settle for awhile and filter, filter, filter. I filter down to 2 microns. There is another forum out there (thedieselstop.com) that has an alternative fuels section where some members describe in detail how they do it. I follow, pretty close, to how member "firemediceric" does his blending.

Jody

[christja]

Hey there husker and all my 6.5 buddies,

Lots been happening in my life in the past 6 months. Im really into making biodiesel and it takes up most of my time. Trying to start up a little processing company.

I had myself a good job, and got offered what i thought was going to be a better thing. turns out that after i had quit job the other company screwed me over and said they couldnt hire anymore.... so as of the current time im scraping to survive, while i look for something else. And on top of that we Just moved into a house with a mortguage payment of 1600 a month....

My 95's been working really good, havent had much in the way of problems, just heat when i pull anything. Still want to get the cooling upgrade and the 80 HP chip...

Thats whats up in my world....Hope everyone is doing well.

Jon Christ

[1grand6]

Boy, that's a bummer. These companies sure could care less about us working stiffs aye? Has anyone ever tried hydraulic fluid as fuel? I have heard of dielectric transformer oil being used, used motor oil, veggie of course, but hydraulic oil? I think a may buy a prebuilt fuel system to heat up whatever I decide to dump in. The winters are cold here in Michigan so I will definently need to heat it. Also looking into using it for house heat. I currently have a fuel oil furnance. Sure would be nice not to spend 350 bucks a month to heat the house. Any thoughts?:confused:

[grancito]

Well we do put some hydraulic oil in our fuel, in the form of ATF, but not much, don't know the amount or form of additives in them. Try ashing some different types and compare to 2 stroke oil ash weight. Could be some info on the net.

[christja]

If you got into making biodiesel you would have a steady supply of glycerol to heat your house up. Ive got 55 gallon drums of the stuff just sittin waiting for me to do something with.

On my website www.bayareabiodieselsupply.com i sell some plans for a home built, oil fired heater...they are under the plans link at the top of the page.

[1grand6]

Well for what its worth, I have 180 miles on 70% oil 30% diesel mixture on my 93. However it is 95 degrees here so I'm sure thats helping my cause out. I'm also looking into turbine oil.I'll let you guys know if I blow it up!:confused:

[grancito]

Don't use the black stuff that is solid at room temperature, I paint the under side of my vehicles with that to protect against the salt. I heard that the best fuel to use is aircraft turbosine with I think, 5% 2 stroke oil.Hyjack a jet aircraft!

[SPANKY6.5ER]

When you put the w/oil into your truck fuel tank, does your tank have somesort of heater? You mentioned starting with diesel fuel out of your small tank, then switching to your truck tank after it heats up.

Richard

[3bals]

Those of us that blend WVO (waste vegetable oil) with other fuels and additives, don't usually need to heat our fuel in the warm summer months. Those that use straight WVO or VO need to heat it to thin it so the pumps can move it. Although I'm going to add a fuel system heater to mine, mainly so I can run my blend in the winter too.

Jody

[1grand6]

I pour hydraulic oil right in the tank. I too plan on heating it for winter. Today I did add a half gallon of regular unleaded gas to thin out 25 gallons of oil.:D At 3 bucks a gallon it sure is nice to drive bye the gas stations for a change.

[GOTRDUN]

I got 16,000 or so miles with many of those with some kind of bio mix(up to b 100). I don't buy the claims that the 6.5 wasn't designed for biofuels and thus can't handle it. Show me a modern diesel engine that is/was designed for alternative fuels. The first diesel ran on peanut oil. And if you are making your own fuel I don't see how it can't be worth it. Our fuel pumps are a pain in the ass anyway and get that pmd outta the engine bay!!!

[christja]

I got 16,000 or so miles with many of those with some kind of bio mix(up to b 100). I don't buy the claims that the 6.5 wasn't designed for biofuels and thus can't handle it. Show me a modern diesel engine that is/was designed for alternative fuels. The first diesel ran on peanut oil. And if you are making your own fuel I don't see how it can't be worth it. Our fuel pumps are a pain in the ass anyway and get that pmd outta the engine bay!!!

You arn't making any sense. If you don't have experience in biodiesel don't make recommendations. Ive been running b100 in my 95' for 6 months, and it works great for only $0.70 per gallon. Whats not worth it?

[6.5Tahoe]

Anyone out there running anything but dino-diesel or bio-diesel is playing russian-roulette with their injector pump. The waxes and soaps that are still present in WVO or other unprocessed oils or fats will foul and fail your injector pumps. Furthermore, if you are using anything more than B20 you need to replace all your fuel lines (including injector return lines) with biodiesel/alcohol rated fuel line, otherwise plain rubber lines will dissolve.

[3bals]

OK, then.

Jody

[GOTRDUN]

Originally Posted by GOTRDUN View Post
I got 16,000 or so miles with many of those with some kind of bio mix(up to b 100). I don't buy the claims that the 6.5 wasn't designed for biofuels and thus can't handle it. Show me a modern diesel engine that is/was designed for alternative fuels. The first diesel ran on peanut oil. And if you are making your own fuel I don't see how it can't be worth it. Our fuel pumps are a pain in the ass anyway and get that pmd outta the engine bay!!!

You arn't making any sense. If you don't have experience in biodiesel don't make recommendations. Ive been running b100 in my 95' for 6 months, and it works great for only $0.70 per gallon. Whats not worth it?

well, christja what I said was that it is worth it. ok, it was a double negative, but that makes a positive, right? anyway, maybe you should read a bit more carefully before you pass judgment as I do know a thing or two about bio. also, if i was starting a company i wouldn't come off like that, especially to another bay area 6.5er into supporting grass roots companies.

[christja]

well, christja what I said was that it is worth it. ok, it was a double negative, but that makes a positive, right? anyway, maybe you should read a bit more carefully before you pass judgment as I do know a thing or two about bio. also, if i was starting a company i wouldn't come off like that, especially to another bay area 6.5er into supporting grass roots companies.

my most sincere apologizes. I was having a really stressful week an i wasn't in my right mind when read your post. I could have sworn it said "how CAN it be worth it". Where in the "bay area" are you ? Are you making your own BD?
Again...sorry about being such an A#$.

[GOTRDUN]

It's cool...these things happen. I'm all over the Bay right now. S.f., Oakland, San Jose, Pleasanton-trying to settle back here after living in Seattle. There is a definite void in the availability of Bio in the Bay. I just don't understnd how the Bay can be so behind in mainstreaming Biofuels. Right now I buy from Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley and cring at the $3.70/gal. price. Rotten Robbies in SJ has B20 at the pumps now. Good luck in all your endeavors.
As for making the stuff, I can't right now due to a lack of a space though I'm really looking forward to being able to start making it soon . I've been going back and forth on whether to set up a heated SVO system with auxiliary tank or just hold out for a small bio production set up. Again, no worries. David

[christja]

I know what you mean about the Bio in the bay. You would think with all the environmentalists there would be a bigger push. Ive also been tossing around the SVO conversion. Ive been making BD for a little over 6 months...I just got my credit card bill for "Gas" it was only $120 (wifes car) and its normally $600 when im buying diesel. So i was happy about that. When you get some space i would recommend making your own $0.60 to $0.75 is a far cry from $3.70. And that BD you get for 3.70 that is "professional made" is most likely poor quality. Ive heard numerous stories about how "professional" BD has ruined injectors and pumps. Id be happy to share the knowledge i have about the process with you when you decide to start producing. Just let me know!:D

[GOTRDUN]

Thanks- I know I don't really dig buying bio @ 3.70'gal. I'd rather support this industry than big petrochemical. Yokayo biofuels, who supply many retail bio sites, is ripping everyone off in my opinion. I can't wait to build my own setup. No way i'm going to spend 2-3 G's on a prebuilt setup. I think you ought to take the Bay by storm and offer better prices and availability. It'd be a hit.

[jdogg00074]

hey i know this may be a dumb question but what does WVO stand for? but hey id rather look stupid and learn than stay ignorant. also have you guys ever done a mix of used motor oil and diesel and if so what kind of blend did you use? i have a lot of used motor oil and ive been thinking of buring it in my 6.5 thanks guy

[3bals]

The only dumb question is the one not asked. That's the way I look at it anyway.

WVO is waste vegetable oil, SVO is straight vegetable oil, sometimes new (virgin) and sometimes used, but not blended. SVO is heated to thin it for use.

There are alot of folks on the alternative fuel forums that use different blends of UMO (used motor oil), but I' not ready for that yet. Maybe when the world gets closer to the end and there isn't anything else to use, I might try it.

Jody

[GOTRDUN]

there's a lot of discussion about running used motor oil. It must be filtered properly before just puttin it in the tank. don't want to hurt that fuel system! there is a ton of info about this on other forums(pm me if you want some websites)