$*&#@$ Brokerage fees

[962500]

So I just bought a new intake and marine injectors for my truck from Walt and they Charged me 200$ to get it over the border on top of what i had already paid to ship it. :mad: But on the good side the truck works great and after 280 000 miles id say the injectors were over due.

[Garth J]

I dont know how close you are to the border but what I do is have it shipped to a mailbox is Sumas Wa. which is about 1/2 hour drive for me. I just pay PST & GST at the border when I bring the product across. Check for a company called Lettterlock I think they are out your way also, thats who I use ....Garth

[John R]

I very recently made a purchase from ssdeisel supply for $885.69 us works out to about $1061.50 canadian. I had the parcel shipped to a parcel handling co. in ND, they only charged me $1.50 canadian WOW! then when i went to the boder-customs the charged me gst and the pst on the order which worked out to $123.04 Canadian . I was satisfied were as to my cost for the parts here were just over $400 more here.After all was said and done a savings of just over $400 canadian.... only future problem is the very near and up-comming passport issue !..

[DragNasty]

How bout i just trade yall some parts for some hot canadian women!:D

[John R]

How bout i just trade yall some parts for some hot canadian women!:D

Hey as long as she's not mine im game !:D

[admin]

We have nothing to do with GST and brokerage fees. We don't charge them, and don't take the money. Unfortunately thats out of our control. Thats between the customer and Canadian Govt.
Sorry.

[jifaire]

We have nothing to do with GST and brokerage fees. We don't charge them, and don't take the money. Unfortunately thats out of our control. Thats between the customer and Canadian Govt.
Sorry.


Actually Walt, it isn't. I've defended you all over the 'net, but you're wrong in this case, and every Canadian knows it.

"Brokerage Fees" are a fiction perpetuated by the companies which carry the goods... UPS, FedEx, TMI, etc. They have nothing to do with the Canadian Government, which only charges GST at 6% + duty on non-NAFTA items (auto parts are excluded by NAFTA)

In your case (and in the case that started this thread), the culprit, UPS, is absolutely THE WORST CARRIER there is when it comes to assessing these fees. I really think they just make them up, and charge whatever they think they can get away with.

Examples:

- I ordered a set of manuals for $85 US = $95 CDN (they were $155 up here)
- shipping was $15 CDN (so far, so good)
- GST was $6.65 (no problem)
- BROKERAGE FEE = $57 CDN

Total = $173.65 CDN

I asked the Canadian Govt and they said hey, we just want the $6.65.
I asked UPS and they said it was for the paperwork and duty and GST collection.

Right.

Worse yet, I have ordered stuff for work from the states, had 2 identical shipments come through 2 different border crossings, and been charged over $300 more at one than the other!!! By UPS!!!

(They had no explanation for that, either... 2 identical boxes, identical weights, identical contents, over $300 difference in brokerage. They just said it was for the paperwork and duty and GST collection. BS)

The moral of this story is that, as long as you ship only through UPS, I can't buy from you unless I get it shipped to somebody in the USA and come down and get it myself. I WANT to pay the tax or duty at the border, all nice and legal, but I won't give another friggin dime to UPS or anybody who insists on using them.

Like I said when I started Walt, you're a good guy and I've spent a lot of time and effort defending you from steaksauce's comments, so you know this has nothing to do with you.

But UPS sucks. Don't blame it on the Canadian Govt.

Jim

[Garth J]

I hear you on UPS Jim what I do is ship it to a mail box in Sumas Wa. (1/2 hr drive for me ) and pick it up there and pay the gouge and screw tax and PST when I cross the border
I was talking to Pacific Customs Brokers and they suggested for private shipments under $1600 to have Walt ship it by US Post it will cross the border with a small ($5) handling charge it will stay at the local Post Office and you will get a notice to pick it up and pay the taxes.
The only problem is the weight and size limitations which a phone call will get that information.
Maybe we should talk to Walt about using post when shipping to Canada that way we could afford to buy more stuff..

[jifaire]

I live about 7 hrs from the border, Garth. Having something shipped to Montana just isn't an option.

There are lots of vendors who will ship USPS right to my local Post Office, and so I patronize them. Fact is, I phoned and asked, and SSDiesel wouldn't do it. Said they only shipped with UPS.

The only reason I posted here in the first place is that Walt has a thing on his website that blames the 'brokerage' on the Canadian Government, like he posted here, and that's just not true.

UPS is the issue.. they control the 'brokerage fee', strictly as an internal thing. It's highway robbery, and I won't pay it. Period.

I think Walt runs a good business, and my American buddies do lots through him, but I won't, as long as UPS is involved. I can buy the parts up here, from the dealer, cheaper than what they cost by the time those crooks get through with them.

[Garth J]

Hey Jim I will have a talk with Walt. Maybe we can work something out

[99C2500]

SS Diesel Supply is a great place to get info either with the classifieds or the website but until they they offer shipping options (like USPS) I'm one Canadian that will never buy from them . I realise that items like heads, exhaust systems or engine blocks are not practical to ship with the postal system but they have plenty of other items that they could ship this way.

Rich in Ottawa

[admin]

We used to ship by USPS, but too many Canadians complained that way! Mail, even Global Express takes 2 weeks, and has no daily tracking, and is impossible to file a claim. Everyone complained too much. So the only alternative is UPS. UPS is reliable, on time, has daily tracking and is simple to file a claim if lost or damaged. Only problem is the commercial fees. We fill out a NAFTA certificate with evey order shipping to Canada to exclude from duty, but there are other fees out of our control like GST tax and brokerage fees. I have no way to control those charges on your end. The next step is to no longer ship to Canada, but I don't want to do that. UPS, Fedex and DHL are all commercial carriers and Canada requires those fees be applied and collected upon delivery.
The mail system is out of the question. I shipped a Heat Sync to Ontario last fall by USPS and Canada Post delivered it to the wrong address in even the wrong Province. They won't do anything for me but say "sorry". And here's the clincher. The guy who received in in error wants to SELL it back to me!!!

I do my best everyday for all my customers everyday and Canadians are no exception. Garth our moderator is Canadian and lives in Vancouver, BC. He became a great friend just from being a customer. Unfortunately UPS is the only option. The mail system is out of the question. But I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. If anyone has other options they know of other then the mail system, please let me know, I would be happy to listen.

[jifaire]

I hear you, Walt, but...

a] If you ship by USPS registered, it gets to the right place because it has to be signed for, verified, and it CAN be insured. Yes, it costs more, but still a lot less than UPS. Yes, it takes longer. It would be a welcome option, though.

b] Have you talked to DHL and FedEx? I know that FedEx doesn't charge the mysterious 'Brokerage' Fee to the same degree that UPS does. Yes, they are required to collect any brokerage fees themselves by Canada Customs, but UPS' fees are both HIGH and ARBITRARY, as I explained earlier. T

The fees charged are set by the brokerage houses, and the courier companies handle their own.

Please Understand... I'm not bashing you. You should KNOW that, from the amount of webtime I've spend defending you on the turbo incident. You aren't the problem ... Couriers aren't the problem. UPS is the problem.

All we want is for you to listen to us Canadians - we have nothing to gain by making this up. Actually, we have nothing to lose, either... we can always order from somebody else that doesn't use UPS, or just bite the bullet and buy it here for the same price.

By the way, the Canadian vendors that ship to me using UPS are fine... it doesn't have to cross the US/Canada border, so the price doesn't (nearly) double. UPS is ok - UPS' BROKERAGE is not.

[jifaire]

Tell ya what... let's have us an experiment. Send 2 identical items to GarthJ, in identical boxes. Mark the value down as $100 on both boxes. Send one with UPS and one with FedEx.

I bet you'll be surprised.

Heck, send 'em both with UPS on different days - I bet that'll be a surprise, too.

Might be a worthwhile experiment to get you a bunch of Canadian customers.

[Dave12]

The fact that SS will only ship to Canada via UPS has kept me from making several purchases. I did buy my fan clutch there, but I had it shipped to a friend's place in Michigan.

I don't buy into the not shipping USPS arguement. I know it will take longer than UPS, I know it might cost a little more, but I also know that I won't get raped with UPS brokerage fees.

I, like most Canadians, have my nightmare stories (yes more than one) about UPS and their charges. I will not purchase anything from anyone if they will only ship via UPS to Canada.

Dave

[Garth J]

to all you Canadian guys (and gals if there are any members) id be glad to consider to have you ship your items to my PO box in Sumas Washington and pick them up for you and as long as you pay the taxes up front I could send the item collect to you by Greyhound. There is about a $3.50 handling charge at the mail box. The cost to ship out west then back east might be something to think about. We can discuss it. Garth

[admin]

I may have mis-spoke saying "Canadian Govt fees" but I meant fees incurred relative to Canada only. I have spent alot of time the past month researching the best way to ship to Canada, and find there are none. All commercial carriers, UPS, FEDEX and DHL have to collect those fees. Its out of everyones control. If you don't have a Canadian broker already, one must be assigned by law and you have to pay the fees. Only the mail system is somewhat exempt as that is classified as "non-commercial". We tried using the mail system last year and it was a disaster! It took weeks to deliver if at all and no reliable tracking is available once it crosses the border. Folks would complain even more and accuse us of not shipping their order since it couldn't be tracked. No way will we use the mail system into Canada again.
Commercial import into Canada will require brokerage fees, GST tax and if a residential address, PST taxes as well. There is no way around it unless we open an office in Canada and drive over the parts ourselves and then ship from that Canadian address. But those fees incurred for export, bridge tolls, building maintenance, paying a driver to wait for hours at the border to cross and return, will add to the cost of goods which will exceed the fees you are paying now. So, we're back to shipping by UPS as the fastest and most economical way. I am sorry for the fees, but there is no legal alternative. If any competitor says different, then they are falsifying federal customs documents to make a quick sale, which is something we will never do.
One alternative is to franchise a diesel shop in Canada as our registered dealer, and have them make frequent pick-ups from us and then distribute across Canada. I will be accepting applications if anyone is interested. How about you Garth?? lol

[Garth J]

good idea Walt but seeing as most of your Canadian business is probably out east the costs to ship it here and warehouse it then ship it back east could be expencive but I will look into it if you want

[Husker 6.5]

good idea Walt but seeing as most of your Canadian business is probably out east the costs to ship it here and warehouse it then ship it back east could be expencive but I will look into it if you want

I think you might be on the right track, Walt. You're in a suburb of Buffalo, perhaps you can find a reputable diesel shop just across the St. Lawrence a short hop away. He can carry high demand items in stock for immediate shipment, and the least common demand/special shipping could be picked up/dropped off weekly/semi-weekly.

There is always the alternate shipping method: Load it in the barrel, send it over Niagara falls, let the customer pick it up downstream:D :D :D! (Don't forget to charge for a barrel deposit if it isn't returned:D !

But seriously, I thought NAFTA was going to open up trade amongst us and make it easier and cheaper to conduct business, at least that was the big selling point back in '92.

Husker 6.5

[jifaire]

Knock, knock ... you're not listening.

You state that "All commercial carriers, UPS, FEDEX and DHL have to collect those fees. Its out of everyones control. If you don't have a Canadian broker already, one must be assigned by law and you have to pay the fees."

Yes. Finally. We're getting somewhere.

This is where you stopped listening last time.

UPS' brokerage fees are arbitrary and often outrageous.

Hear that? UPS.

I'm not complaining about brokerage fees, per se. If somebody has to collect GST, fine with me. That's the law.

However...

When I order a manual and the 'brokerage fee' from UPS is 72% of the cost of the book, there's a problem.

When I order 2 identical shipments from the same supplier, they're shipped in identical boxes, both through UPS, and one arrives with over twice as much 'brokerage' fee as the other, there's a problem.

When UPS can't tell me what the fee is for, or on what basis it is calculated, or otherwise answer those questions, there's a problem.

When they tell me that even though the fees are different, they are both legitimate and I have to pay them, there's more than a problem. That's robbery.

When I'm not the only one with horror stories like this, then somebody needs to pay attention. Read my lips - I will not do business with anyone who ships from the USA via UPS.

I posted a little challenge above:


Tell ya what... let's have us an experiment. Send 2 identical items to GarthJ, in identical boxes. Mark the value down as $100 on both boxes. Send one with UPS and one with FedEx.

I bet you'll be surprised.

Heck, send 'em both with UPS on different days - I bet that'll be a surprise, too.

Might be a worthwhile experiment to get you a bunch of Canadian customers.


Nobody is asking you to falsify customs documents.
Nobody is asking you to deal with uninsured carriers.
Nobody is asking you to drive the parts to the border.

But it's simple. Ship with UPS, and I won't order anything from you.
Period.

[convert2diesel]

This seems to be an ongoing problem this side of the border. Either it's misinformation or an attempt by the major carriers to monopolize the cross border transactions.

I have no idea as to the reliability of Fedex south of the border, but up here, I have been using them for the past 17 years for all my domestic and international shipments. In that time they have only lost two packages and in both cases (courier truck had an agrument with a tractor trailer and a tarmac fire destroyed their aircraft) the insurance covered the cost of the bits. They didn't really loose the packages as opposed to the items being destroyed. In most cases, their pricing is reasonable and the admin fees are more then acceptable.

As far as UPS is concerned, I totally agree with the previous posts as to their predatory pricing structure. The onset of the Ebay madness has presented itself as a cash cow for the companies with less then scrupulous business ethics. They have you by the short and curlies and they aren't for letting go cheaply.

If the item is large (engine, tranny, genset, class three flying boat) I have the item shipped overland to a warehouse in Ogdensburg NY and I personally drive down and bring it across myself. Pay the taxes and duties if applicable and I am on my way. No fuss, no muss, it's simple. As I live about 45 minutes north of the border, this can be accomplished in a couple of hours.

Walt: If you want to discuss this further, I would be more then happy to see if there is a way to make this process easier and more cost effective. I have been doing this nigh on 30 years and have a good relationship with the Canadian border people. Pop me an email and lets talk.

Bill

[jifaire]

Nice Post, convert2diesel.

Get that, you guys?

The problem isn't the Canadian government.

The problem isn't normal courier fees.

The problem isn't GST, PST, customs fees, or anything else that you have been told.

The problem is UPS and their "predatory pricing structure". Now, they may tell you that their fees are legitimate, and they tell us the same thing, but they're arbitrary, excessive, and "predatory".

Ship FedEx, ship DHL, and I'm OK with buying from you, Walt.

I hope you don't take this as derogatory to you, 'cause it isn't. (other than the fact that you haven't been listening to the real problem).

I won't buy from ANY American business that ships by UPS. Not one other business has refused to ship to me via another carrier, once they found out what the problem was. Ergo, they get my business, and that of lots of Canadians.

Jim

[grancito]

I know people here in Mexico who have things sent in from the USA and have no broker fees. If they come via USPS, they take time but the internal taxes are collected at the post office of the destination, if it is a taxable item here.

[grancito]

I'll go along with that, Jody, UPS does not have authority to penalise citizens of countries that have governments not to the liking of UPS.

[3bals]

I never thought that I'd get a post deleted by the moderator. I was just trying to tell the other guy to play nice. But it's funny that other members can use profanity like sh_t and f__k and the like and their post are still up.
But I notice that they are Canadian.

Jody

[Garth J]

we dont like pollitical statements on here and certinally not the f word and if I see it it gets deleted
The brokerage thing is UPS not Canadian or American and yes most of us Canadians like you guys to the south so if you have anything derogitory to say about either governments keep it to yourselves ...Garth

[Husker 6.5]

I never thought that I'd get a post deleted by the moderator. I was just trying to tell the other guy to play nice. But it's funny that other members can use profanity like sh_t and f__k and the like and their post are still up.
But I notice that they are Canadian.

Jody

I agree with you, Jody. I read those posts yesterday, and found that other guy WAAAY out of line in his comments, as well as semi-literate in his syntax and spelling. Ignorance not withstanding, his post should have been deleted, but not yours, as you were defending the Canadians, telling that idiot to cool his jets, and placing the blame firmly on the shoulders of predatory businesses. I would have dumped my $1.34's worth on the poster of that ignorant blathering (it was definately worth more than $.02 of my opinion), but I was pressed for time as I had to go attend a wake for a friend of mine that passed away Monday. Personally, I think Garth overstepped it when he pulled down your post. Let's see if this one stands or not because I just disagreed with Garth.

I was born on the Fourth of July! (For real.)

Husker 6.5
Captain, US Army Reserves (Ret)
Defender of the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic (from my oath of commisioning as an Officer).

PS: I really wish we had the Canadian Health Care system here. 1 out of 5 Americans unable to obtain or afford Health Insurance is the REAL crime!!

[Garth J]

Jody maybe I deleted your post by mistake too bad I cant find it to reread it
I know one should not have been on here so if I did I am sorry At the time I had 3 phone calls (all telemarketers) trying to get money out of me. Which should not be an excuse ...Garth

[3bals]

That's OK. No big deal.

Jody

[6.5Tahoe]

Ok, if you love Canada and Canadian health care, move there with Micheal Moore and live happily ever-after. As for the fees charged by UPS, they have been in the shipping business the longest, having dealt with the Canadian government and it's policies. OBVIOUSLY, Canada is someplace they'd rather not ship to. I imagine their PREDATORY fees are designed to offset Canadian PREDATORY Tarriffs and kick-backs. Will this message post be removed also? Are the outraged Canadian socialist party-bosses watching? Will they continue demanding Canadian-stye censorship? Are only Canadians allowed to gripe without a counter-point argument? Why not start a simular 6.5 business and compete with Walt? Isn't everything better in canada, including prices, products and birthright?

[Garth J]

Ok, if you love Canada and Canadien health care, move there with Micheal Moore and live happily ever-after. As for the fees charged by UPS, they have been in the shipping business the longest, having dealt with the Canadien government and it's policies. OBVIOUSLY, Canada is someplace they'd rather not ship to. I imagine their PREDATORY fees are designed to offset Canadien PREDATORY Tarriffs and kick-backs. Will this post be removed also? Are the outraged Canadien socialist party-bosses watching? Will they continue demanding Canadien-stye sensorship? Are only Canadiens allowed to gripe without a counter-point argument? Why not start a simular 6.5 business and compete with walt? Isn't everything better in canada, including prices, products and birthright?

I think you should check your facts before you blame Canada for the "Brokerage Fees" UPS charges they have nothing to do with the Canadian Govt.
There are no tarriffs or kickbacks or PREDATORY FEES as you call it the only charges collected by the Canadian govt. are applicable taxes such as the GST and any provincial taxes that are due exactly like your border does for state and federal taxes for inbound shipments.
UPS does over charge their Brokerage Fees coming north there is no question about that and its strictly a UPS charge nobody but them gets the money however they do collect the applicable taxes and do remit the taxes back to the Canadain Govt. and that is all they remit.
As far as shipping UPS would ship to the moon and you can be sure they would have a large Brokerage fee for that too.
I have been shipping products both ways across the border for longer than you have probably been on this earth so keep your views to yourself untill you get your facts straight...Garth J

[6.5Tahoe]

Garth, I'm curious why Canadians continuously complain about fees and taxes, after all they live in the "ideal" kind of state (according to them.) Why is it then that they require anything from the USA at all? Even on Walt's site he asks that Canadians not try to get him to falsify records so they can avoid THEIR taxes. Isn't it those kind of taxes that pay for Canada's FREE healthcare system? I'm curious, are you Canadian?

[Garth J]

Garth, I'm curious why Canadians continuously complain about fees and taxes, after all they live in the "ideal" kind of state (according to them.) Why is it then that they require anything from the USA at all? Even on Walt's site he asks that Canadians not try to get him to falsify records so they can avoid THEIR taxes. Isn't it those kind of taxes that pay for Canada's FREE healthcare system? I'm curious, are you Canadian?

Yes im Canadian and damn proud of it even though there are a hell of a lot of things wrong in this country.
We are one of the most highly taxed countries in the world.
Get it right we are not worried about the taxes, we dont like to be gouged by inflated fees to bring something across the border by commercial carriers.
If you do it yourself all you pay at customs is Provincial Taxes (none in Alberta) and the hated Goods and Service Tax (GST 6%) all the other fees charged on cross border shipments are a carriers extra charge for doing the paperwork which is a licence to print money and UPS is guilty of having the highest fees. The bad thing is the fees are not always the same for the same products
Dont ever think our Health Care is Free its so screwed up by beaurocracy it will never be free. Its true that you can have a hospital stay for an ailment or see your Doctor at no charge but you have already paid for it with high taxes plus a monthly fee depending on what Province you live in.
As far as requiring products from out of Canada... there is no country in the world that is self sustaining... its the same as you... I bet you dont have every product in your home made in the USA .
You have to remember there are only about 36 million people in Canada thats less than in California.
OK enough said on Brokerage Fees there is nothing we can do about it except have Walt open a store on the north side of the border and we have talked about that also. ...Garth J

[6.5Tahoe]

Garth, I'm amazed to hear this kind of thing! Huge numbers of people in my country, including Hillary Clinton think that we need Socialized Healthcare (Canada Prototype) here in the USA. The fact is, we (the USA) have the best healthcare system in the world. If you are sick and need a life saving procedure YOU GET IT NOW, not put on a list (except for organ transplant!) If only more pro-socialized healthcare advocates would read your last post, they'd realize the Canadian model is something an American patient would never tolerate. In the end, no matter what it is, there is no such thing as FREE, you're gonna pay for it one way or another!
Anyhow, I hope I haven't ruffled too many feathers out there...the fact is we have a border between our two countries and getting goods accross it is a pain. UPS has been doing it a long time, and I'm sure they've had their issues with the Canadian government, whatever they may be, and charge what they charge for a reason. As I indicated, UPS would probably be happy to have other shippers ship to Canada instead.

[Garth J]

You are not hearing me ....There is no connection between brokerage fees and the government, its a carriers service charge to do the paper work to cross the border in either direction.
UPS has the highest charges of all cross border carriers period......And you can bet they make a lot of money doing it and would love to not have any other competition dong it then they would even charge more....Garth

[6.5Tahoe]

Oh, I understand your view, but you clearly don't accept the probable reality. If they wanted to be more competitive they'd lower or eliminate the fees, it's a CAPITOLism thing, free market economy and all that. I know that your economy and market is a sheltered quasi-socialist one up in CANADA. I'm not sure if this will make any sense to you with the Canadian mind-set, but in the past (before click&ship) when sending an ebay item to a buyer in Canada, I'd have to go thru 12 pages of CANADIAN customs paperwork required for each package (while the UPS clerk ranted on about dealing with Canadian Customs). I'm sure it costs time and money to process and facilitate this mountain of paperwork, so I'm not sure how you think the brokerage fees are somehow unrelated. My personal experience with the Canadian customs forms caused me to no longer sell to Canada until the recent online paperwork has made it somewhat pain-less.

[Garth J]

What fee are you talking about?
No matter which way you ship across any border in the world there is a brokerage fee charged to do the paperwork by the common carrier and it doesnt matter which country you are shipping to or from..This fee charged by UPS is higher than any other carrier and believe me I have used them all.

[jifaire]

What Garth is trying to explain to you is that UPS charges an arbitrary and very high fee for 'brokerage' - which for the larger carriers, amounts to moving the applicable taxes to the right places, going either way at the border.

What you aren't understanding is this:

If you ship 2 identical items, in identical packaging to me, by the time UPS is done with them, they will likely have 2 different 'brokerage fees' assigned to them. And UPS won't bother to explain how this can happen, or admit that it did.

BOTH of those fees will be 3-4 times what FedEx will have charged for the same shipment(s). At least.

Strange part is, we only have these issues with UPS when they cross the border (either direction). It's not a Canadian or US government thing, it's a UPS thing.

As for health care, taxes, or snivelling about why either country is better than the other, get a life, eh? You seem to be the only one waving that flag; the rest of us never said anything of the kind.

If you want to have a serious debate about any of those topics, we can sure accomodate you; remember to bring facts, not opinions, and we'll be just fine.

Have a nice day, eh?

[Garth J]

What Garth is trying to explain to you is that UPS charges an arbitrary and very high fee for 'brokerage' - which for the larger carriers, amounts to moving the applicable taxes to the right places, going either way at the border.

What you aren't understanding is this:

If you ship 2 identical items, in identical packaging to me, by the time UPS is done with them, they will likely have 2 different 'brokerage fees' assigned to them. And UPS won't bother to explain how this can happen, or admit that it did.

BOTH of those fees will be 3-4 times what FedEx will have charged for the same shipment(s). At least.

Strange part is, we only have these issues with UPS when they cross the border (either direction). It's not a Canadian or US government thing, it's a UPS thing.

As for health care, taxes, or snivelling about why either country is better than the other, get a life, eh? You seem to be the only one waving that flag; the rest of us never said anything of the kind.

If you want to have a serious debate about any of those topics, we can sure accomodate you; remember to bring facts, not opinions, and we'll be just fine.

Have a nice day, eh?

Thanks I couldnt have said it better myself...and I think thats enough on politics....Garth

[convert2diesel]

To ship anything to Canada you need:

1. Invoice for export

If you are a company exporting to another company for the purpose of reselling said item then you need A B18 form (description of product and place of manufacture)

If you are exporting a vehicle then you need the original title to the car, proof that there are no liens on the car and an Invoice for Export. The importer needs a bunch of stuff but that is not the exporters problem.

Not 12 documents, not a problem with our border people, and no grief as long as the GST is paid. On this side of the border, if you are a commercial enterprise then you have to post a bond to guarantee taxes and duties (if any). This cost me about 12 bucks a month. Courtesy of NAFTA and it's predecessors, most automotive stuff passes across duty free.

The only thing the broker has to do is assure that the taxes are paid (as per their bond) and the invoice is on the outside of the package. They are not even liable for illegal shipments (drugs, cigarettes, booze, bombs, stray Taliban members). We are literally talking less then 5 minutes of someones time, assuming it isn't a large complex shipment. Certainly not worth the charges typically imposed by UPS.

One last comment about our medical system. I have over the past 7 months needed three operations for bladder cancer. I didn't have to wait, got all the help I required, was treated with dignity and all it cost (other then my taxes) was 30 bucks to have a TV in my room. In conversation with a friend of mine who is a doctor working in Texas, he indicated that my procedures would have set me back about 70 grand. Who has that kind of change hanging around? Since 1964 no one in this country,to my knowledge, has had to sell their home, lost all of their savings or had to go into significant debt just because they had the misfortune of getting sick. To my knowledge no one has been turned away from any medical establishment just because they don't have Blue Cross or belong to the correct HMO.

Our system may be flawed (what large system isn't) and we may be the highest taxed people in the developed world, but we have one of the best standards of living in the world and the peace of mind knowing that there is a safety net out there when things go bad.

We live in a country with the second largest land mass of any country and we have been able to build an infrastructure second to none world wide. We have done that on the backs of less then 10% of your population. Sure our taxes are high...we can't take advantage of economies of scale. By the way you could put every man woman and child living in Canada between Malibu Beach and San Diago and still not get into the mountains. The question is "why would we want to?". We have lost too many to Hollywood already.

Sorry for the rant. I do a significant portion of my business with Americans, and for the most part like the people I am exposed to. My wife and I vacation in the States alot and have many positive experiences with the people there but sometimes one has to stand back in amazement as to the lack of knowledge you have of your northern nieghbours. We are your biggest trading partner and your closest ally. Get to know us.

Bill

[6.5Tahoe]

Yeah, you guys are so much better than us in the states. Too bad Walt has let this discussion group become SO dominated by you POOR, SUPERIOR CANADIANS. I can't think of I reason I would EVER want a question or concern answered by one of you. You are CLEARLY beyond comprehension. Can I get banned by a CANADIAN MONITOR yet? What do I have to do? (Oh yeah us poor simpletons down in the states don't know you, if we did WE would close our northern borders and end the NAFTA nonsense!)

[grancito]

we are getting away from the issue of cross border charges

[Chevylover]

Yeah, you guys are so much better than us in the states. Too bad Walt has let this discussion group become SO dominated by you POOR, SUPERIOR CANADIANS. I can't think of I reason I would EVER want a question or concern answered by one of you. You are CLEARLY beyond comprehension. Can I get banned by a CANADIAN MONITOR yet? What do I have to do? (Oh yeah us poor simpletons down in the states don't know you, if we did WE would close our northern borders and end the NAFTA nonsense!)


Du redest nur Müll ! Selbst ich als Deutscher habe verstanden worum es in diesem Posting ging, Du allerdings wohl nicht ! Hätte nie gedacht, daß sich Kanadier und US-Amerikaner wegen so einem Kinderkrams so anpissen können. Wird hier irgendwer gezwungen auch nur irgendetwas bei Walt zu kaufen/bestellen ? Ich denke nicht. Also schalte einfach mal wieder Dein Hirn an, bevor Du so einen Blödzinn schreibst. Ich habe keine Probleme, weder mit den "Amis", noch mit "Koana Da" !

Have fun with translating ! For me it is no problem to read and write in english - what about your german ?

Cu,
Sven

[grancito]

Bien hecho Chevylover, pero creo que tu poste salió sin efecto!
How about helping with the "black smoke, turbo shut down " problems.

[jifaire]

Yeah, you guys are so much better than us in the states. Too bad Walt has let this discussion group become SO dominated by you POOR, SUPERIOR CANADIANS. I can't think of I reason I would EVER want a question or concern answered by one of you. You are CLEARLY beyond comprehension. Can I get banned by a CANADIAN MONITOR yet? What do I have to do? (Oh yeah us poor simpletons down in the states don't know you, if we did WE would close our northern borders and end the NAFTA nonsense!)


I take it then that you have no further comment on the issue of cross-border 'brokerage' fees? Have we explained everything to your satisfaction, or are there other related misconceptions you would like to address?

Have a nice day!

[Chevylover]

Bien hecho Chevylover, pero creo que tu poste salió sin efecto!
How about helping with the "black smoke, turbo shut down " problems.



No comprendo espanol, senor ! Una cerveza grande por favor !

I think you wrote something like :

"Gut gesagt Chevylover, könntest Du wohl mal in dem Posting "black smoke, turbo shut down" reinschauen und mir dazu helfen ?"


I'll see what i can do !

Cu,
Sven

[Garth J]

Yeah, you guys are so much better than us in the states. Too bad Walt has let this discussion group become SO dominated by you POOR, SUPERIOR CANADIANS. I can't think of I reason I would EVER want a question or concern answered by one of you. You are CLEARLY beyond comprehension. Can I get banned by a CANADIAN MONITOR yet? What do I have to do? (Oh yeah us poor simpletons down in the states don't know you, if we did WE would close our northern borders and end the NAFTA nonsense!)

You are sure showing your ignorance. Have you ever even been to Canada?
We dont live in Igloos and ride around in sleds.
We are getting tired of hearing your ranting and one sided comments and there has been enough said on the brokerage issue.
We get millions of American visitors each year up here who come back year after year so we must be doing something right....Garth J
PS I am a retired trucker that has done many miles in the states and loved meeting our neighbours to the south.

[6.5Tahoe]

Yeah, Deuchland, Deuchland Uber Alles!!

[Chevylover]

Yeah, Deuchland, Deuchland Uber Alles!!

Toll, Deutsch kann er auch ! :rolleyes: Vielleicht ein wenig rechts, aber ...
Naja, er will es wohl net begreifen.

Cu,
Sven

[jifaire]

Yeah, Deuchland, Deuchland Uber Alles!!

Give it a rest.

[6.5Tahoe]

what? complaining about complainers not in fashion in socialist states?

[jifaire]

what? complaining about complainers not in fashion in socialist states?

a] you need to read a bit more, in order to clarify your knowledge base. Somehow, either you have mistakenly arrived at the notion that Canada is a Socialist State, or your definition of Socialism is inadequate to the task.

b] interesting that you think we're 'complaining' about taxes. We're not. You have missed the seminal point of the discussion, that being UPS' pricing structures in cross-border commerce in either direction. FedEx does not have these (very high and arbitrary) extra fees, nor does USPS. Nobody here is asking Walt to do anything either immoral or illegal; merely to ship via a different carrier to avoid these fees. His competitors have already figured this out.

c] Your diatribes about Michael Moore's latest expose of the collapsing US Health-insurance structure seem rather bitter. Are you perhaps harbouring a hidden agenda here? I see no reason for you to attack Canada's Universal Health-Care system other than envy, which is a singularly unpleasant emotion.

If you wish to continue this, you should perhaps do a little research first, and come prepared to engage in intelligent discussion. As it stands now, you are the penultimate caricature of the 'Ugly American', a stereotype that dogs millions of your more-reasoned countrymen, when they have done nothing to deserve that characterization, other than being from the same nation as a few narrow-minded, ill-informed loudmouths - you being a prime example.

Have a nice day.

[6.5Tahoe]

Here we go again! I didn't name Canada specifically as a socialist state, but you seem to identify and defend your country as such, so I guess I should thank you for making my point for me. The healthcare infastructure in the US is just fine and not falling apart as you have been lead to believe. Canadian propaganda minister Micheal Moore tries to make a buck finding fault in all things American, making him the actual "ugly American". I'm sure you aren't smart enough to know the difference between the real facts vs. the nonsense he spouts by getting you to spend your Canadian welfare check watching his propaganda films.
I cannot imagine why Walt would choose a Canadian moderator and allow socialist spin for a site dedicated to the great 6.5, when 90% of his business is from us in the USA. Don't get me wrong, Garth is ok, but he does lace his remarks with a certain elitist conceit. I've also read a few of Walt's rants about how Candians will drive to his place of business and complain about paying NY sales tax on their purchases because they are somehow "special" and should be exempt. He also had a message on his site asking Canadians not to request having items shipped as gifts to avoid import fees. When it comes to taxes and fees, you have no problems jumping on the issue and becoming "ugly Canadians", and I have been merely pointing that out. As for the accusation that most Americans love Canada, you are wrong. Some won't even care, some can't show it to you on a map, most think "Blame Canada" is a cool tune.
NAFTA is a tool used by big business here in the US to get cheap goods and cheap labor from our immediate neighbors, Mexico and Canada. As far as I am concerned, you are all complicit in trying to lower the standard of living here in the USA and are making cross-border economic warfare with us "ugly Americans". Just remember, if our economy suffers, yours will to a greater extent. I remember a time in the early 80's when the US econmy was recovering and illegal Canadian immigrant workers were here, seems jobs were hard to find and starting a business up there was almost impossible. I submit that Canada is more a parasite than it's own economic engine, having to siphon off the US economy in order to survive, something that would never happen if the border closed. So, all you Canadians need to come to the realization that you aren't a real country with a real economy, rather more like a misquito on an elephants hide. So STOP COMPLAINING, be glad you live in the shadow of the first and only real democratic republic with a free-market economy!!! Enough about Canada, it's really not significant place anyhow, a land merely populated with pompus whiners.

[jifaire]

Deleted by owner.

[jifaire]

What amazes me is that somebody like yourself feels a need to go onto a diesel 6.5 site and spout your propaganda, making it abundantly obvious to all that your lack of factual data shapes your rather inbred world-view.

It's interesting that my Canadian brothers are in Afghanistan, side by side with my American cousin's units, fighting against those who wish to rule people's intellects through similar disinformation to that which you endorse and spout.

I have extensive business dealings with Americans, and an entire branch of my family lives in California, so I'm perhaps not quite so ignorant about Americans as you imply... And so far, I have found very few differences between Americans and Canadians. Good people is a term that knows no borders; unfortulately, so is Moron. I met one up here once... you must be the American counterpart.

As I stated before, the term "ugly American is UNFAIRLY applied, deserved by only a few, in my experience. You are one.

I LIKE Americans. For the most part, I admire them as hard-working, honourable, reasoned people who face life with an outlook of optimism and pride. There are also Canadians I am ashamed of, people who act just like you do in public, proudly proclaiming your ignorance in a misguided attempt to appear superior, when in fact, you just don't matter.

Regarding your comments on economics (a field that you appear equally unqualified to discuss), it's interesting that you refer to us as trying to 'lower the standard of living in the US..', and speak of 'illegal Canadian immigrant workers'. ROFL.

Highly skilled canadian workers were imported by US companies in droves in the 80's, using the legal US Work VISA process, a necessary thing by law in both countries. I too remember a time when the American economy outperformed the Canadian one; I also remember a time when currency margins were decidedly in our favour, something that is again coming to pass because of your runaway debt-load and ill-advised spending. I wish I could say the Canadian economy is growing, but it's not; just standing still as yours falls behind.

Finally, this will be my last post on this matter.

I came here to point out to Walt that his competitors have already caught onto the fact that UPS employs predatory pricing structures in both directions of cross-border commerce, probably in their arrogance believing that nobody would figure out that their efforts to blame the respective governments were just lies.

Walt's competitors have already figured that out, and now ship by FedEx and USPS, neither of which charge these arbitrary fees. I posted that message earlier, but it was retracted, as it was deemed unfair to Walt's competitors to post such a thing on a Forum that he sponsors. I can understand that, but I wish the message had gotten out; this whole thread was not about whining over taxes, governments, heath-care, or nationality. It was about a company that gouges their customers with impunity, something consumers of all nationalities should abhor.

So have a nice day; let this off-topic stuff die. If you have further comments about the issue of cross-border shipping charges, I'd like to hear them.

Anything else is just allegory.

[6.5Tahoe]

Trying again to separate the issues eh? Unfortunately, when you add it all up (Canadians complaining about having to pay NY sales taxes at will-call, wanting the shipping paperwork falsified as a "gift" and finally ranting about "predatory" brokerage fees) equals CANADIAN WHINING....and a SOCIALIST MINDSET, PERIOD!!! This kind of thing cannot go unnoticed.
As for the 12 Canadian soldiers in Afganistan, horray! I'm sure your government is getting paid nicely for their contribution along with with extra NAFTA allowances. I have been a part of NATO forces elsewhere, where other countries send their dog-and-pony shows, but do little except have a military presence there. They are symbolic (token) military forces sent for political or economic gain, that will cut-and-run at the first measure of genuine difficulty.
When unfortunate things happen in a combat environment, like when a Canadian unit was hit by a US airstrike, we have to crawl on our hands and knees and beg for your forgiveness. The American pilots involved became political sacrifices in order to appease and sooth Canadian sensitivities, losing their careers in the process. It was a deeply regretable incident, but war is war and it was an honest friendly-fire mistake, and the pilots should not have been sacrificed on the political altar. This is an example of the double-standard that exists in the US-Cananda relations and relationship that encourages Canadian elitist attitudes and expectations.

[jifaire]

Trying again to separate the issues, but when you add it all up (Canadians complaining about having to pay NY sales taxes at will-call, wanting the shipping paperwork falsified as a "gift" and finally fanting about "predatory" brokerage fees) equals CANADIAN WHINING....and a SOCIALIST MINDSET, PERIOD.
As for the 12 Canadian soldiers in Afganistan, horray! I'm sure your government is getting paid nicely for their contribution along with with extra NAFTA allowances.

You need to remember that just because you repeat falsehood, it doesn't gain credibility automatically.

Neither do you.

Regarding the above comments about 'the issues' ... do you have factual confirmation about canadians whining about having to pay NY sales tax at 'will-call', or wanting paperwork falsified? No? Oh, so you're just spouting off again... I understand.

FWIW, I have no problem paying applicable taxes, be they state, federal, excise, or sales-based. I am quite capable of calculating those into my decision on whether to purchase or not. This thread isn't about that. It's about UPS' arbitrary fees - fees charged by a private company, not a government, by the way - and whether or not we should pay them.

Personally, I choose not to. If I choose to order from an American company, I ask if they will ship USPS or FedEx. Most agree, and do - and I happily pay the applicable, static fees. If they insist on shippiong UPS, I refuse to patronize their business. It's their right to ship with UPS and my right to deal with somebody else.

Your infantile preoccupation with socialism and nationalistic propaganda is the side issue here.

[Garth J]

THATS ENOUGH ANY FURTHER POSTS WITH POLLITICAL CONTENT WILL BE DELETED I REFUSE TO HAVE OUR BOYS BEING USED AS PAWNS
keep the posts to what is intended for 6.5 information ....Garth

[6.5Tahoe]

Garth, if you aren't trying to hammer on Walt over UPS as his shipper, why did you let this message string exist in the first place? I'm no expert, but it does seem to be a political statement of sorts and a forum for Canadians to express their dissatisfaction with his company. Some have gone on to point out how his competitors are far more reasonable by offering other shipping carriers.
I'm not sure if you have the high-ground on this issue.

[3bals]

I thought it was over. Guess not, so I withdraw my last comment!

Jody

[jifaire]

Garth, if you aren't trying to hammer on Walt over UPS as his shipper, why did you let this message string exist in the first place? I'm no expert, but it does seem to be a political statement of sorts and a forum for Canadians to express their dissatisfaction with his company. Some have gone on to point out how his competitors are far more reasonable by offering other shipping carriers.
I'm not sure if you have the high-ground on this issue.

Once again, you're trying to make something that isn't there...

We love Walt. We don't even hate UPS.

We just hate unreasonable and arbitrary brokerage fees.

Fools, too. Don't much like them, either.

[6.5Tahoe]

Ok, so you just want to be left alone in this forum for pompus Canadian whiners! I get it!
What a shame you can't let well-enough alone, and thank Walt for creating a tremedously great entity at SSDIESELSUPPY.COM, taking the ulcers out of owning a 6.5TD. I have been buying from him since his early ebay days and cannot tell you how much a value his advice and products have meant. Before his services I had to go to dealerships that either didn't know, want the 6.5, or over-charged for every little repair, with no free advice! Thank God for Walt, a saint amongst mechanics! I find it offensive that there are those willing to rant about shipping charges, when what they receive from Walt is so much more valuable than just the parts he ships. It's just plain disrespectful, you should all be ashamed in this attempt to hammer him on this issue!

[jifaire]

Once again, you're trying to make something that isn't there...

We love Walt. We don't even hate UPS.

We just hate unreasonable and arbitrary brokerage fees.

Fools, too. Don't much like them, either.

Been there, said that. Walt is a great guy. You're an idiot, trying to make this into a slam against him.

[6.5Tahoe]

Gotta love pompus Canadian elitists, they gotta have the last word!

[Garth J]

I have been dealing with Walt for a long time and he has great products that do as advertised and also fit ..
This thread was about UPS and UPS only not anything to do with SSdieselsupply or the governments of either country.
It has gone far enough and as far as I can see from the postings everyone both Canadians and Americans and other people have had enough on this subject.
So we would rather hear some positive responses from you on 6.5 related issues.
Do you think you can contribute to the 6.5 cause?

[6.5Tahoe]

Not to beat a dead horse again, but it seems you all just dont get it, so here it is one more time! High fees (brokerage or otherwise) from UPS probably equals past or current issues dealing with Canadian Customs and import taxes/tarrifs! Common sense boils it down to UPS hoping you'll ship to Canada with someone else and save them the aggrivation! That holds true and is the logical assumption, especially since that attitude is expressed by their customer counter employees when they say "shipping to Canada is the worst". Furthermore, if Walt continues to ship with UPS, then it is safe to assume that he doesn't do enough business with Canadians to effect his shipping service provider choice. Having said that, I don't understand why this is the first and longest thread here under the "sound-off" catagory, unless it's intended to lobby Walt to make changes for the sole benefit of a tyrannic minority.
There you have it! Any questions? Clear as mud?

P.S. (I'll save my elitist friend the post and call myself an "idiot" in advance, ok?)

[jifaire]

P.S. (I'll save my elitist friend the post and call myself an "idiot" in advance, ok?)

Actually, I figured it was sort of self-evident...

I'm pleased you stuck to the topic, and your speculation about why UPS charges these extra fees is rather interesting, to say the least.

"...probably equals past or current issues dealing with Canadian Customs and import taxes/tarrifs!"

Sheer speculation, but adequate, I guess, if you assume UPS is throwing a temper tantrum like a vindictive teenager. I sort of doubt that a responsible business would act that way, but then again, anything is possible. After all, you somehow think that Canadians have import taxes/tarriffs... which ones, specifically?

I'm aware of some illegal ones the other way, things like softwood lumber, beef, beer, barley... you know, protectionist tarrifs, but I can't think of a single one coming this way. Can you? Heck, Americans even buy up our pharmaceuticals by mail and internet in record amounts to avoid some of these protectionist tarriffs going that way, but that's another argument.

"Common sense boils it down to UPS hoping you'll ship to Canada with someone else and save them the aggrivation!", you are supposing that UPS is merely trying to discourage Canadians from buying American products, or that UPS is trying to help FedEx fgrow their business. Interesting. (but stoopid, as Arte Johnson used to say)
if Walt continues to ship with UPS, then it is safe to assume that he doesn't do enough business with Canadians to effect his shipping service provider choice.
It seems you further wish to explain Walt's shipping choice with the same flawed logic; according to you, Walt really doesn't want to ship to Canadians, either.
That's too bad, because this thread was never about Walt. It was about UPS; our problem was in our inability to realize these high, arbitrary 'brokerage fees' were an outgrowth of a vast conspiracy to stymie Canadian diesel owners.

Yeah right. Elvis said so. Yesterday.

Nice theory, though. Thanks for your input!

[6.5Tahoe]

Conspiracy? Elvis? What copeous amount of dime-store pharmacuticals have you been taking? Too much cough syrup perhaps? Damn strung-out Canadian, he forgot to mention possible alien or UFO influence! Hell, he might even be one of those nutty seperatist Quebeceans!

[Garth J]

OK thats enough everyone

[surreysinner]

Whats with all the canadian bashing?

Grow up I thought this was diesel website.

[Garth J]

Your right about it being a 6.5 forum so lets keep it at that
No more on the brokerage thing its run its course

[6.5Tahoe]

Ah, the peanut gallery!

[jifaire]

Your right about it being a 6.5 forum so lets keep it at that
No more on the brokerage thing its run its course

Absolutely, Garth. Please advise of potential changes as they arise.
Jim

[jifaire]

Hey Garth, anything new on the shipping front? One of our suppliers today asked if they could ship some technical manuals by USPS... seems they keep getting their shipments returned (to Texas) by UPS, along with a big handling charge.

UPS told them that Canada Cuatoms was refusing the shipments - then they found out it was the customers refusing the shipments because of the big UPS 'brokerage fee'.

Needless to say, they're a little choked. I don't blame them.

[Garth J]

Maybe somebody will wake up at UPS but I doubt it

[grancito]

did someone see my post before Garth, it's not there now, does UPS have access to remove posts?

[don bad]

Garth,

I am a native american, and I had a friend cross into canada a month ago and he didn't need a passport. He is native American. Could there be some way to bypass the taxes by using a Native Company? Do natives have any way of working around the taxes. Here in the U.S. if you live on a reservation, usually you don't have to pay a state tax. Also, some other taxes. Being near Buffalo, you have the Seneca's, and in North Dakota you have the turtle mountain Chippewa's and in Montana you have the assinaboine Sioux and what ever else is around the U.S. Canada border.

Please let me know.

Don

dbbmjr@gmail.com

[Garth J]

You would have to talk to customs about that..

[jifaire]

I keep telling you-all, it ain't about Customs.

The Border Services guys aren't getting any money from us (other than GST).

The problem is that UPS collects this 'Brokerage Fee' simply for filling out the paperwork at the border. 1 form, one signature, auto parts = no duty.

The Fee goes into UPS' pockets, not the Customs department of EITHER government.

What that means, Don, is that your buddies could save the 6% GST by shipping Rez to Rez, but they would still pay the "Brokerage Fee" to UPS.

This whole thread started because Walt won't ship with anybody other than UPS. He doesn't understand the issue (that FedEx and others don't charge this ridiculuous, arbitrary fee) and insists on blaming it on the Canadian Government. I don't mind paying normal GST, but I won't order from anybody who ships via UPS, PERIOD.

[grancito]

All other suppliers of everything, offer a choice of shippers. Why doesn't Walt?

[9365manual]

This whole thread is hilarious. It reads like one of our presidential debates. Nobody on either side cares all that much about the facts, just defend your opinion come hell or high water. Speaking of high water--lets all go out and and enjoy driving our pre-emission standards 6.5 diesel engines and speed up global warming. Its cold here in NW Iowa. Good night!!

[edzzed]

it is my understanding that when using fedex the shipper pays any and all brokerage fees and so the seller and buyer would know what the fees are prior to shipping. with ups it is a crapshot and i for one will not ever buy from ebay or any other seller who will not ship usps or fedex. sorry but i have paid far too many times and far too much money to ups. there must be a reason some have tried class action lawsuits against ups for their business practices. regards Ed

[grancito]

That's right, to sell parts, offer different shippers, so I have to buy parts elseware, UPS does not ship to here!!!!!!!!